Yesterday's Finds

[Shellseeker]

Another great day in the sunshine with friends.

Kayaking in a slow current, finding chest deep water, sun shining,  a few drops of rain. The deep water is aerobic exercise for me, really helps my back both during and after. We were in 2 locations.  One was chest deep , finding mostly small shark teeth. I think there are a couple of Tiger shark parasymphyseals/symphyseals there, some nice Hemis/Tigers...and one of my friends found the beat_up Horse tooth and asked if I thought it was pre_Equus.  I said I was not sure but I would give someone on TFF an opportunity to answer.

 

@Meganeura Have you looked at enough fossettes and plications to hazard a guess on Equus or not? Slight variation on angle for 2nd photo

 

We hunting the morning at the 1st spot,  and after eating lunch,  I headed downstream to a place we had hunted extensively and friends avoided because it was "hunted" out.  But I had some great memories there of black enamel, black rooted megs, and I could bask in the memories hunting old locations...

My 1st sieve had the 2.5 inch Meg   !!!  Nothing better than Luck. There was a top layer of 4-6 inches of gravel..  I quickly picked up a piece of fossilized, a large dolphin vert,  the process of a dugong Vert to join the Meg.  The detail on all of these is excellent, meaning no water erosion for a couple of million years.  Tells me a lot about where they came from.....A photo of the Meg taken on the river...

 

I am trying to identify that toe bone or hoof core.....it only has 3 sides to photo....

 

 

1st photo has an articulation,  last photo is concave,  middle photo convex.  @PODIGGER

Jim, I am hoping that you can help me here. Seems like you see a lot of bones... Which way is down  ?  Which way is up?   Thanks Jack

[Meganeura]

I don’t think I’m quite good enough to say for sure yet - but obviously the lack of protocone makes ID hard. That being said - the fossettes that are present seem to match Equus in terms of high plication count and a complex pattern to me. The highest plication count on a 3-tied tooth I know of is Cormohipparion plicatile - and it doesn’t have a pattern as complex as most Equus teeth, as seen here:

[Bone Daddy]

The older I get, I am starting to fully appreciate how back pain can limit or alter one's fossil-hunting routines. I feel ya Jack. My back still hurts from my last trip out almost two weeks ago.

 

I'm not yet to the place where I need deeper water like you do, but I think I am well on my way and starting to get curious about it.

 

I have a question though - if you are in chest-deep water, how difficult is it to transfer the gravel from your shovel to the sifter?  Do you have to lift the shovel much higher and transfer the strain from the lower back to the upper back and shoulders/lats? I'm curious, because my back issue is more felt when twisting and not bending. I can do the Sanibel Stoop without much problem, but if I turn while also stooped, I am in trouble. Even the wrong twist while standing can trigger it. I'm trying to imagine how my body movements would change if I started shoveling/sifting in deeper water. Right now, I am usually less than waist deep.

 

Nice finds BTW. Is that chip on the meg from your shovel? Still a very nice teeth though.

 

[webmasterj]

Nice finds and beautiful little meglaodon tooth

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, Meganeura said:

I don’t think I’m quite good enough to say for sure yet - but obviously the lack of protocone makes ID hard. That being said - the fossettes that are present seem to match Equus in terms of high plication count and a complex pattern to me. The highest plication count on a 3-tied tooth I know of is Cormohipparion plicatile - and it doesn’t have a pattern as complex as most Equus teeth, as seen here:

Thanks ,  Daniel... I am going to try and line up features from my find with Equus (and your plicatile above) to see if it is clear one way or another.....Right now I am unsure of the orientation of the tooth,  where on my photo would the protocone area be...

Adding the photo... sorry

 

[Meganeura]

10 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Thanks ,  Daniel... I am going to try and line up features from my find with Equus (and your plicatile above) to see if it is clear one way or another.....Right now I am unsure of the orientation of the tooth,  where on my photo would the protocone area be...

That makes two of us…I think the first picture is the correct orientation - protocone down - but it seems the area where the protocone would connect is part of what’s broken. 

[Shellseeker]

45 minutes ago, Bone Daddy said:

The older I get, I am starting to fully appreciate how back pain can limit or alter one's fossil-hunting routines. I feel ya Jack. My back still hurts from my last trip out almost two weeks ago.

 

I'm not yet to the place where I need deeper water like you do, but I think I am well on my way and starting to get curious about it.

 

I have a question though - if you are in chest-deep water, how difficult is it to transfer the gravel from your shovel to the sifter?  Do you have to lift the shovel much higher and transfer the strain from the lower back to the upper back and shoulders/lats? I'm curious, because my back issue is more felt when twisting and not bending. I can do the Sanibel Stoop without much problem, but if I turn while also stooped, I am in trouble. Even the wrong twist while standing can trigger it. I'm trying to imagine how my body movements would change if I started shoveling/sifting in deeper water. Right now, I am usually less than waist deep.

 

Nice finds BTW. Is that chip on the meg from your shovel? Still a very nice teeth though.

 

In deep (covers my lower spine) water,  I do not have to bend my neck to look into my sieve, Normally I can lift my left foot so my thigh is horizontal, my right foot only half that... in deep water I can easily lift my foot so my right thigh is horizontal.....

 

Right ... different strokes for different folks... Much more stress on forearm and bicep muscles but , as you say,  I have moved the fulcrum to accommodate my specific lower back pain.. Simply if I dig in deeper water,  no pain the next day... none

 

Feeding Damage...

The Meg was in a feeding frenzy chomping on a dead whale...  One of it's teeth fell out, and the Meg bit its own tooth before the tooth could clear the jaws... I have a tooth that has 3 bite marks down one side..  Same pattern.. horizontal into the tooth, and then a scoop out in the direction of the tip.....

 

[Shellseeker]

50 minutes ago, webmasterj said:

Nice finds and beautiful little meglaodon tooth

Thank you,  4 inches is about tops in the Peace River and there are very few of those.  This one is a tad over 2.5 inches...

[Family Fun]

Nice Meg, reminds me of the one my wife found her first trip out.   Not quite as big as yours though.

[hemipristis]

17 hours ago, Bone Daddy said:

The older I get, I am starting to fully appreciate how back pain can limit or alter one's fossil-hunting routines. I feel ya Jack. My back still hurts from my last trip out almost two weeks ago.

 My backs ok, it’s the knees

 

Knees and backs: proof that mankind was not meant to walk upright   

Edited April 12, 2023 by hemipristis

[fossillarry]

I hate to be a pessimist Jack and Daniel but I do not think the horse tooth cane be identified.  Nice Meg tooth though Jack.

[Shellseeker]

7 minutes ago, fossillarry said:

I hate to be a pessimist Jack and Daniel but I do not think the horse tooth cane be identified.  Nice Meg tooth though Jack.

I think you are correct, Larry  At first I thought that I could line up the fossettes and plications with a bunch of known Equus teeth,  thus proving that it was just broken, beat up remnant of Equus, but after an hour of trying , I still could not figure out which side of my broken tooth would have contained a protocone...

Just gave up.

[Brandy Cole]

@Shellseeker. I downloaded your picture and gave it a spin several times and just couldn't figure out how to square it.  There seemed to be an obvious protocone, but on the other hand it was on the other side of the tooth from where I expected the three plications to be (instead of directly below them). 

 

Is it possible this is fragments from more than one tooth that have been pressed and held together by matrix?  

 

I couldn't make out details of the side view in your first picture, but good side view photos might be useful.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Brandy Cole
Spelling correction

[fossillarry]

Jack I also looked at all parts of the tooth and couldn't make the different parts add up. Brandy could be right about more than one tooth , but ??????.

[Meganeura]

23 minutes ago, fossillarry said:

Jack I also looked at all parts of the tooth and couldn't make the different parts add up. Brandy could be right about more than one tooth , but ??????.

Two teeth, each broken in half, but the broken halves stuck together, perhaps?

[Shellseeker]

22 minutes ago, fossillarry said:

Jack I also looked at all parts of the tooth and couldn't make the different parts add up. Brandy could be right about more than one tooth , but ??????.

 

Yes,  I have changed camps... this one does not deserve more effort..

 

38 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said:

I couldn't make out details of the side view in your first picture, but good side view photos might be useful.

Brandy, I have been called bull_headed, but you might be more tenacious than I...  Here are the photos you request. 

[fossillarry]

All the side view tells me is I still can't tell what the tooth is.

[Brandy Cole]

Jack, I'm sure those that know me best would be happy to tell you how bull-headed I am... Probably enthusiastically and at great length.  So I'll consider myself in good company with you.  

 

But mostly, I just love a good mystery.

 

Sadly, here I didn't find the smoking gun I was hoping for.  I can't confidently make out any clear point of merger, unless it's the lighter material running through the middle of your third picture and around the edges of the second picture.

 

Anyway, an interesting possibility.