Whale Fossils Stolen From Flint River, Georgia, Excavation

[Oxytropidoceras]

Who took whale bone fossil? by Jim Wallace

Nov. 2, 212, http://www.walb.com/...ale-bone-fossil

Thieves target Flint River whale bones

by Jessica Fairley, WFXL News, Albany,

Georgia, November 5, 2012

http://www.mysouthwe....aspx?id=820862

An original news article about this fossil whale is:

Whale fossil discovered on Flint River

by Dave Miller, WTVM News, August 13, 2012

http://www.wtvm.com/...ssil-discovered

Yours,

Paul H.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Oxytropidoceras

[Taffie]

Terrible news. I hope they recover it.

[Gizmo]

I hope they catch and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

[fossiljunkie]

yes they really need to put an end to nonsense like that. unfortunately the news can very well lead the irresponsible and the looters to such locations. sometimes keeping it quiet is the way to go. i'm afraid the original news story lead to this disaster.

they need to be made an example of. hope they track down those responsible for putting our hobby at risk. the more it happens the more it worries me.

[Missourian]

I hope they took plenty of photos of the bones. That should help id them if they turn up.

[bone2stone]

It is sad to think that there are people out there like that.

It happens all too often.

Theft is why I do not allow my chosen specimens to display without me in attendance.

I mentioned just such an occurance, in another post, here in Texas about a turtle found in Fate Texas, and some Mammoth remains in Waco.

Jess B

[PrehistoricFlorida]

I knew it was a terrible idea when they widely publicized the location of the site that they were working in a drug-addict heavy area.

[FossilDAWG]

Just to play devil's advocate here for the sake of information, what specific laws were violated to cause people to say the "looters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law"? If the site was "staked" and signs were placed to identify the location as a research site, and if the University has legal standing to do that, then removing the fossils was clearly theft. Simlarly, if the site is on private property and the collectors had to trespass, then removing the fossils would be theft. If the people who removed the fossils learned of them through the news and were aware that the site was being worked by researchers, taking the fossils would be highly unethical, but not all unethical actions are illegal.

On the other hand, suppose whoever removed the fossils actually discovered them on their own, and were not aware of the University's interest? People post about whale bones and teeth they have collected all the time here on FF. I don't think it's illegal (and nor should it be) to collect such specimens. If I were to find an articulated whale skeleton I personally would report that to people I know at the University (of course, I also work at the University so I know who to talk to), but I am not aware of any legal requirement that I do so.

A few years ago a paleo club I belong to found a dinosaur, which ultimately turned out to include about 40% of the skeleton including the skull and mandibles, by far the most complete specimen of that genus and species ever collected. As soon as we realized what we had, we contacted a paleontologist from a major museum in the area, who came out and confirmed that the find was highly significant. We then covered over the specimen, and members of the club took it in turns to camp out within eyesight of the location until access for vehicles across adjacent private property could be arranged, which was a bit complex and took about 10 days. The club then assisted with the excavation, jacketing, and removal of the specimen. It took about two weeks, or even a little more, between discovery and collection, and during that time no-one said anything about the find or location to anyone who was not a party to the initial discovery, and the specimen was never left unattended. If a specimen is really all that important, and is in a highly accessible area, it's hard to see how it would be left unprotected for months.

I don't know any more about the Georgia whale fossil than I have read in the articles posted, and (cross my heart!) I don't know anything about who took the fossils. Of course from the perspective of the researchers it was "their" fossil, and whoever took it is a looter. I'd just like a little more evidence that this was really "looting", or else we all run the risk of being called looters every time we collect anything.

Don

[Missourian]

Just to play devil's advocate here for the sake of information, what specific laws were violated to cause people to say the "looters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law"? If the site was "staked" and signs were placed to identify the location as a research site, and if the University has legal standing to do that, then removing the fossils was clearly theft. Simlarly, if the site is on private property and the collectors had to trespass, then removing the fossils would be theft. If the people who removed the fossils learned of them through the news and were aware that the site was being worked by researchers, taking the fossils would be highly unethical, but not all unethical actions are illegal. ..............

.................

Good points.

This is one reason I prefer invertebrate fossils. You never know if you'll end up stepping on toes.

[Boesse]

Fossildawg has some great points. Neither I nor him can comment on the specific legality of collecting vertebrate fossils on that property, but what I do know is this: they made a big press release about the discovery - months ago - and never bothered digging it up. Granted, I don't always have the time/energy to dig up some fossils, and know of many large specimens in Central California I'd love to go and collect - but I ran out of time and wasn't able to get everything (sometimes there are just too many fossils).

When I have made an important discovery - I make sure not to go and tell (really, we can't say the d word here?) well everyone about it until after it's out of the ground. Not only that, but I get the impression from the photos from the original excavation that they had already excavated part of it, and left the dig site 'open' like that; maybe they had buried it, I don't know. I can tell you I would never consider putting up a sign saying "museum excavation" - perhaps I'm too cynical, but that's just begging for some vandal or unscrupulous collector to come by and either vandalize or steal it. I usually try and do excavations in one day, because I don't even like thinking about the fossil to sit exposed like that overnight - many of my excavations are on the coast, where high tide and waves could come in and damage the find, or one of numerous curious beachgoers could come by and damage it. So, when I do do an excavation, I do it all at once and make sure I can spend several consecutive days working on it. Leaving a partially excavated whale out and unchaperoned like that - with a press release no less - is just begging for someone to vandalize it. Just my two cents.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Boesse

[MarkGelbart]

Just to play devil's advocate here for the sake of information, what specific laws were violated to cause people to say the "looters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law"? If the site was "staked" and signs were placed to identify the location as a research site, and if the University has legal standing to do that, then removing the fossils was clearly theft. Simlarly, if the site is on private property and the collectors had to trespass, then removing the fossils would be theft. If the people who removed the fossils learned of them through the news and were aware that the site was being worked by researchers, taking the fossils would be highly unethical, but not all unethical actions are illegal.

On the other hand, suppose whoever removed the fossils actually discovered them on their own, and were not aware of the University's interest? People post about whale bones and teeth they have collected all the time here on FF. I don't think it's illegal (and nor should it be) to collect such specimens. If I were to find an articulated whale skeleton I personally would report that to people I know at the University (of course, I also work at the University so I know who to talk to), but I am not aware of any legal requirement that I do so.

A few years ago a paleo club I belong to found a dinosaur, which ultimately turned out to include about 40% of the skeleton including the skull and mandibles, by far the most complete specimen of that genus and species ever collected. As soon as we realized what we had, we contacted a paleontologist from a major museum in the area, who came out and confirmed that the find was highly significant. We then covered over the specimen, and members of the club took it in turns to camp out within eyesight of the location until access for vehicles across adjacent private property could be arranged, which was a bit complex and took about 10 days. The club then assisted with the excavation, jacketing, and removal of the specimen. It took about two weeks, or even a little more, between discovery and collection, and during that time no-one said anything about the find or location to anyone who was not a party to the initial discovery, and the specimen was never left unattended. If a specimen is really all that important, and is in a highly accessible area, it's hard to see how it would be left unprotected for months.

I don't know any more about the Georgia whale fossil than I have read in the articles posted, and (cross my heart!) I don't know anything about who took the fossils. Of course from the perspective of the researchers it was "their" fossil, and whoever took it is a looter. I'd just like a little more evidence that this was really "looting", or else we all run the risk of being called looters every time we collect anything.

Don

According to one of the news reports, the GBI said it was a felony. Therefore, some specific laws must have been violated.

[Still_human]

On 11/11/2012 at 4:03 PM, Boesse said:

Fossildawg has some great points. Neither I nor him can comment on the specific legality of collecting vertebrate fossils on that property, but what I do know is this: they made a big press release about the discovery - months ago - and never bothered digging it up. Granted, I don't always have the time/energy to dig up some fossils, and know of many large specimens in Central California I'd love to go and collect - but I ran out of time and wasn't able to get everything (sometimes there are just too many fossils).

When I have made an important discovery - I make sure not to go and tell (really, we can't say the d word here?) well everyone about it until after it's out of the ground. Not only that, but I get the impression from the photos from the original excavation that they had already excavated part of it, and left the dig site 'open' like that; maybe they had buried it, I don't know. I can tell you I would never consider putting up a sign saying "museum excavation" - perhaps I'm too cynical, but that's just begging for some vandal or unscrupulous collector to come by and either vandalize or steal it. I usually try and do excavations in one day, because I don't even like thinking about the fossil to sit exposed like that overnight - many of my excavations are on the coast, where high tide and waves could come in and damage the find, or one of numerous curious beachgoers could come by and damage it. So, when I do do an excavation, I do it all at once and make sure I can spend several consecutive days working on it. Leaving a partially excavated whale out and unchaperoned like that - with a press release no less - is just begging for someone to vandalize it. Just my two cents.

Hey, if I ever end up in centeral California, would you mind telling me where any of those large specimens you didn't have time or energy to collect???

[Boesse]

Sure, they're at Capitola beach, in giant concretions the size of kitchen appliances. You'll need a permit, a frontloader, and about ten years worth of time and funding to get them prepared. Have fun!

[Still_human]

3 hours ago, Boesse said:

Sure, they're at Capitola beach, in giant concretions the size of kitchen appliances. You'll need a permit, a frontloader, and about ten years worth of time and funding to get them prepared. Have fun!

So what ur saying is that a shovel and some gumption aren't enough?

[Boesse]

Definitely not! A front loader and a Pionjar rock drill are going to be needed at minimum, and a masonry saw and a team of graduate students wouldn't hurt either.