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PetrolPete

Id Needed For Some Oklahoma Concretion Fossils

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Roz

Reminds me of a fish fin.. Do you see any bone?

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RCFossils

Neat! definately looks like fish material

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PetrolPete

Reminds me of a fish fin.. Do you see any bone?

Possibly, where it has fractured near the end between the two sides, the fracture surface looks very smooth with no structure I can easily see, but the striations running down the side have a couple spots where it looks like there could be possible internal structure.

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PetrolPete

I got it cleaned up a bit and moved to loose piece to the other side, and it is beginning to a little like it has structure of some sort. Here are some [hopefully] better pictures

post-8113-0-97561200-1359685609_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-24921500-1359685627_thumb.jpg

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KansasFossilHunter

Sure looks cool...

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jpc

cool stuff... that mystery "jaw" piece might be a good candidate for a CT scan...

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Terry Dactyll

The '' fish scale '' you thought is definately a fish scale... and the jaw could also be section of a carb shark headspine....Theres a few of the nodules that could be carb fish parts for sure...and asociated boney plates... The long tapered one resembles one I found called something like a parasphenoid...

Carb shark headspine (one type, there was many)

post-1630-0-18428500-1359708034_thumb.jpg

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Scylla

The new one may be a hybodont spine. Just a guess.

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Auspex

The '' fish scale '' you thought is definately a fish scale... and the jaw could also be section of a carb shark headspine....Theres a few of the nodules that could be carb fish parts for sure...and asociated boney plates... The long tapered one resembles one I found called something like a parasphenoid...

Carb shark headspine (one type, there was many)

post-1630-0-18428500-1359708034_thumb.jp

I concur: try comparing it with Xenacanth occipital spines.

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PetrolPete

cool stuff... that mystery "jaw" piece might be a good candidate for a CT scan...

I had never considered that possibility, what would it take to organize that?

The '' fish scale '' you thought is definately a fish scale... and the jaw could also be section of a carb shark headspine....Theres a few of the nodules that could be carb fish parts for sure...and asociated boney plates... The long tapered one resembles one I found called something like a parasphenoid...

Carb shark headspine (one type, there was many)

post-1630-0-18428500-1359708034_thumb.jpg

I see what you mean about the 'jaw' the 'teeth' really do resemble the spines in the head spine. It's definitely something I'll try looking into.

The new one may be a hybodont spine. Just a guess.

I certainly see the resemblance, the only difference I can see is the lack of 'teeth' or 'spines' along it, is that normal?

I concur: try comparing it with Xenacanth occipital spines.

Is there a place where you would suggest to find a good picture? I can't seem to find one.

Thanks again for the help everyone

Edited by PetrolPete

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Terry Dactyll

Petrol Pete... The only place Ive seen reconstructions and comparisons of carb shark spines was in a paper entitled...

Revision of the Xenacanthida ( Chondrichthyes Elasmobranchii ) from the Carboniferous of the British Isles by Oliver Hampe

Transactions of the royal society of Edinburgh : Earth Sciences, 93, 191 -237, 2003

Obviously not a very common find... Theres not much out there when you google...

Hope this helps

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Roz

I have only found 2 spines with teeth. On one even with the loupe I could not

get images to show.. They are just too tiny.. This one is Pennsylvanian (Garner

Formation, Texas) but I did not know if it is a head spine or where on the shark it was..

post-13-0-10118700-1359916025_thumb.jpg

post-13-0-49354700-1359915911_thumb.jpg

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PetrolPete

So I went and talked to the paleontology professor at my University about some of the concretions and found out a few interesting things. First off, I found out that there hasn't been a paleontological study of these formations since, at the earliest, the 1960's, so there isn't much of a chance of finding a true species list. Second, he wasn't able to positively ID the same things we are having issues IDing so no luck there. Third, he said my best bet to ID them was to probably go spend some time at the field museum in Chicago, which probably isn't any time soon since I don't have the time.

In addition, I've gotten backlogged on posting more pictures, partly because I haven't had time and partly because they have been opening so fast (I may have mispoke in an earlier post, as these concretions may, in fact, open like easter eggs as I've almost gone through all 100 or so I got on my last trip). Which leads me to my next topic, spring break. I had been thinking of doing a spring break fossil hunting trip the week of March 18th. Although nothing is final, one plan I was considering was to go up to Kansas City and talking/hunting with all you muncie creek guys so you can see the concretions in person as well as hunting that area. Then I was looking at hunting shark teeth & leaves near Russel and heading up to Jewel county to look for more teeth and cephalopod concretions, and then hopefully make it out to the Niobrara chalk since I never made it during the summer, and I was wondering, because I know several members live in these areas, if I do get this to happen, if anyone would want to/be able to meet up at some point

Thanks again everyone,

-Peter

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PetrolPete

I did find a pdf online that shows the stratigraphy, the suspected environment, rate of deposition and some characteristic fossils. Granted, it is for tulsa county and the place I found the concretions is in Rodgers county (one county north west of tulsa county). I was wondering if this pdf might help eliminate possible ids and narrow things down.

Penn-Strat-Section.pdf

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Missourian

Although nothing is final, one plan I was considering was to go up to Kansas City and talking/hunting with all you muncie creek guys so you can see the concretions in person as well as hunting that area.

It would be fun to compare nodules. :)

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PetrolPete

Got something new and interesting today, so I made a little time to post a few hurried pictures, unfortunately I am still backlogged pics but here are a few unknown new ones

post-8113-0-28036700-1360617517_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-94996400-1360617529_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-82139700-1360617544_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-18772400-1360617538_thumb.jpg

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PetrolPete

and one more

post-8113-0-83818100-1360617618_thumb.jpg

Thanks again for the help anyone

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PetrolPete

Think I found another jaw or spine, what do you think? Any ideas on what its from

post-8113-0-38812200-1360651079_thumb.jpg

will post better pics tomorrow (including of other side of the concretion)

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Terry Dactyll

Pete.... The last one is DEFINATELY a carb shark headspine Id say....If you google Oliver Hampe and try and get an email address... then send the pictures of your two shark headspines I'm sure he would confirm the ID for you...You need the correct expert for these things otherwise its all guesswork and going round in circles...

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PetrolPete

Pete.... The last one is DEFINATELY a carb shark headspine Id say....If you google Oliver Hampe and try and get an email address... then send the pictures of your two shark headspines I'm sure he would confirm the ID for you...You need the correct expert for these things otherwise its all guesswork and going round in circles...

Great, thanks again for the help and contact suggestion. Just to check, I think I found the correct person, is this him: http://mfnsu32.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/hampe-oliver/ ? If it is, as soon as I get a chance I'm going to talk with the geology department and work with them to get some really good pictures to send him.

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Roz

Please continue to keep us posted..

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Terry Dactyll

Pete...Yep... thats your man... He was very helpful when I contacted him regarding my shark headspine...

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LanceH

I've seen a Pennsylvanian age locality that contains copius little round claystone nodules. A large percent of the pear-shaped ones contain complete fish skulls so look out for that shape. Some have been CT scanned by a well known paleontologist.

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PetrolPete

I've seen a Pennsylvanian age locality that contains copius little round claystone nodules. A large percent of the pear-shaped ones contain complete fish skulls so look out for that shape. Some have been CT scanned by a well known paleontologist.

Cool, I actually went out yesterday, grabbed a few that I saw, I'll post pictures when I get a chance, but the major find yesterday was a set of two concretions next to each other that were in the shape of a belemenite, you know, long, round, with a point at one end. Unfortunately they were highly weathered and fell apart when I picked them up, so I was doing repairs all night and still haven't got it all back together, I think I might have left a couple pieces up at the lake. The insides look like bone, but the exciting thing is one has two head spines! One that looks like a weathered version of the one on the previous page and a partial one that looks teeth (might be teeth). I'll post pictures when I can.

I talked with one of my geo professors (before I had gone on this trip) and concluded that I should get in contact with a vert paleontologist at the geological survey and I remembered next Sunday is ID day at the Noble Museum at OU (home of the Oklahoma geological survey), so I'll be going to go there to talk with them then. Hopefully they will do a revised study on the area!

Quick question, I've noticed almost every 'bone' I've found (not just here, but from everywhere) will stick to your tongue when you put it to your tongue, as it seems to be sucking the moisture away, Is that something that you all have found is generally true?

Edit: Also, I think I found another possible ID for the 'shark spines'. Is it possible that they might be from an acanthodian? what do you all think?

Edited by PetrolPete

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PetrolPete

As promised, pictures:

Round 3 of concretions, double the volume of last round:

post-8113-0-01460700-1361151520_thumb.jpg

The odd concretions:

post-8113-0-03618000-1361151557_thumb.jpg

spine 1:

post-8113-0-52938200-1361151585_thumb.jpg

the large repaired concretion with the tops off:

post-8113-0-33930100-1361151666_thumb.jpg

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