Roz Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Reminds me of a fish fin.. Do you see any bone? Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Neat! definately looks like fish material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Reminds me of a fish fin.. Do you see any bone? Possibly, where it has fractured near the end between the two sides, the fracture surface looks very smooth with no structure I can easily see, but the striations running down the side have a couple spots where it looks like there could be possible internal structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 I got it cleaned up a bit and moved to loose piece to the other side, and it is beginning to a little like it has structure of some sort. Here are some [hopefully] better pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KansasFossilHunter Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Sure looks cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 cool stuff... that mystery "jaw" piece might be a good candidate for a CT scan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The '' fish scale '' you thought is definately a fish scale... and the jaw could also be section of a carb shark headspine....Theres a few of the nodules that could be carb fish parts for sure...and asociated boney plates... The long tapered one resembles one I found called something like a parasphenoid... Carb shark headspine (one type, there was many) Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The new one may be a hybodont spine. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The '' fish scale '' you thought is definately a fish scale... and the jaw could also be section of a carb shark headspine....Theres a few of the nodules that could be carb fish parts for sure...and asociated boney plates... The long tapered one resembles one I found called something like a parasphenoid... Carb shark headspine (one type, there was many) I concur: try comparing it with Xenacanth occipital spines. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) cool stuff... that mystery "jaw" piece might be a good candidate for a CT scan... I had never considered that possibility, what would it take to organize that? The '' fish scale '' you thought is definately a fish scale... and the jaw could also be section of a carb shark headspine....Theres a few of the nodules that could be carb fish parts for sure...and asociated boney plates... The long tapered one resembles one I found called something like a parasphenoid... Carb shark headspine (one type, there was many) I see what you mean about the 'jaw' the 'teeth' really do resemble the spines in the head spine. It's definitely something I'll try looking into. The new one may be a hybodont spine. Just a guess. I certainly see the resemblance, the only difference I can see is the lack of 'teeth' or 'spines' along it, is that normal? I concur: try comparing it with Xenacanth occipital spines. Is there a place where you would suggest to find a good picture? I can't seem to find one. Thanks again for the help everyone Edited February 3, 2013 by PetrolPete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Petrol Pete... The only place Ive seen reconstructions and comparisons of carb shark spines was in a paper entitled... Revision of the Xenacanthida ( Chondrichthyes Elasmobranchii ) from the Carboniferous of the British Isles by Oliver Hampe Transactions of the royal society of Edinburgh : Earth Sciences, 93, 191 -237, 2003 Obviously not a very common find... Theres not much out there when you google... Hope this helps Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I have only found 2 spines with teeth. On one even with the loupe I could not get images to show.. They are just too tiny.. This one is Pennsylvanian (Garner Formation, Texas) but I did not know if it is a head spine or where on the shark it was.. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 So I went and talked to the paleontology professor at my University about some of the concretions and found out a few interesting things. First off, I found out that there hasn't been a paleontological study of these formations since, at the earliest, the 1960's, so there isn't much of a chance of finding a true species list. Second, he wasn't able to positively ID the same things we are having issues IDing so no luck there. Third, he said my best bet to ID them was to probably go spend some time at the field museum in Chicago, which probably isn't any time soon since I don't have the time. In addition, I've gotten backlogged on posting more pictures, partly because I haven't had time and partly because they have been opening so fast (I may have mispoke in an earlier post, as these concretions may, in fact, open like easter eggs as I've almost gone through all 100 or so I got on my last trip). Which leads me to my next topic, spring break. I had been thinking of doing a spring break fossil hunting trip the week of March 18th. Although nothing is final, one plan I was considering was to go up to Kansas City and talking/hunting with all you muncie creek guys so you can see the concretions in person as well as hunting that area. Then I was looking at hunting shark teeth & leaves near Russel and heading up to Jewel county to look for more teeth and cephalopod concretions, and then hopefully make it out to the Niobrara chalk since I never made it during the summer, and I was wondering, because I know several members live in these areas, if I do get this to happen, if anyone would want to/be able to meet up at some point Thanks again everyone, -Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I did find a pdf online that shows the stratigraphy, the suspected environment, rate of deposition and some characteristic fossils. Granted, it is for tulsa county and the place I found the concretions is in Rodgers county (one county north west of tulsa county). I was wondering if this pdf might help eliminate possible ids and narrow things down. Penn-Strat-Section.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Although nothing is final, one plan I was considering was to go up to Kansas City and talking/hunting with all you muncie creek guys so you can see the concretions in person as well as hunting that area. It would be fun to compare nodules. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Got something new and interesting today, so I made a little time to post a few hurried pictures, unfortunately I am still backlogged pics but here are a few unknown new ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 and one more Thanks again for the help anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Think I found another jaw or spine, what do you think? Any ideas on what its from will post better pics tomorrow (including of other side of the concretion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Pete.... The last one is DEFINATELY a carb shark headspine Id say....If you google Oliver Hampe and try and get an email address... then send the pictures of your two shark headspines I'm sure he would confirm the ID for you...You need the correct expert for these things otherwise its all guesswork and going round in circles... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Pete.... The last one is DEFINATELY a carb shark headspine Id say....If you google Oliver Hampe and try and get an email address... then send the pictures of your two shark headspines I'm sure he would confirm the ID for you...You need the correct expert for these things otherwise its all guesswork and going round in circles... Great, thanks again for the help and contact suggestion. Just to check, I think I found the correct person, is this him: http://mfnsu32.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/hampe-oliver/ ? If it is, as soon as I get a chance I'm going to talk with the geology department and work with them to get some really good pictures to send him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Please continue to keep us posted.. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Pete...Yep... thats your man... He was very helpful when I contacted him regarding my shark headspine... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I've seen a Pennsylvanian age locality that contains copius little round claystone nodules. A large percent of the pear-shaped ones contain complete fish skulls so look out for that shape. Some have been CT scanned by a well known paleontologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) I've seen a Pennsylvanian age locality that contains copius little round claystone nodules. A large percent of the pear-shaped ones contain complete fish skulls so look out for that shape. Some have been CT scanned by a well known paleontologist. Cool, I actually went out yesterday, grabbed a few that I saw, I'll post pictures when I get a chance, but the major find yesterday was a set of two concretions next to each other that were in the shape of a belemenite, you know, long, round, with a point at one end. Unfortunately they were highly weathered and fell apart when I picked them up, so I was doing repairs all night and still haven't got it all back together, I think I might have left a couple pieces up at the lake. The insides look like bone, but the exciting thing is one has two head spines! One that looks like a weathered version of the one on the previous page and a partial one that looks teeth (might be teeth). I'll post pictures when I can. I talked with one of my geo professors (before I had gone on this trip) and concluded that I should get in contact with a vert paleontologist at the geological survey and I remembered next Sunday is ID day at the Noble Museum at OU (home of the Oklahoma geological survey), so I'll be going to go there to talk with them then. Hopefully they will do a revised study on the area! Quick question, I've noticed almost every 'bone' I've found (not just here, but from everywhere) will stick to your tongue when you put it to your tongue, as it seems to be sucking the moisture away, Is that something that you all have found is generally true? Edit: Also, I think I found another possible ID for the 'shark spines'. Is it possible that they might be from an acanthodian? what do you all think? Edited February 18, 2013 by PetrolPete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 As promised, pictures: Round 3 of concretions, double the volume of last round: The odd concretions: spine 1: the large repaired concretion with the tops off: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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