Clever Staining Or A Fossil?

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

Found along road cut on Indiana state road 13, in Wabash Indiana. Silurian and Wabash formation. Same place as the cephalopods fossilDAWG id'ed for me. I dont know if this is just a clever stain mimicing something or a fossil. I did find another ufo (unidentified fossil object ) on the otherside of the road that looked the same. The color that this is, is the same as other fossils I found. I figure if it was the same mineral replacing the fossils it might stand a better chance of being something. Thoughts?

[Herb]

there can be organic materials in some of the rocks. (oil,tar) etc. If it is only on the surface it could be tar over spray from the road, that stuff can spray a long way.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Herb

[PFOOLEY]

Plant material? It's very symmetric.

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

there can be organic materials in some of the rocks. (oil,tar) etc. If it is only on the surface it could be tar over spray from the road, that stuff can spray a long way.

Thats actually a good point about road tar. It was 10 feet from the shoulder under a few inches of fallen rock material. Doesnt appear to be superficial. The darker material does appear to be within the matrix. I will try to get a picture of this.

Plant material? It's very symmetric.

That was what I was wondering. But I hadn't seen any that were silurian in age.

Thanks

[Auspex]

Yeah, there is something going on here, and it isn't tire tracks:

[Indy]

I've seen this mineral-like feature before ...

can't remember where or when. However, I suggest

the structure is through out the rock and not just on the surface.

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

[PFOOLEY]

Search: Silurian vascular plants.

You might have a gem.

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

I have spent the last several hours searching for Silurian vascular plants and came up with two; Cooksonia and Baragwanathia. The latter is found in Australia. http://www.uni-muenster.de/GeoPalaeontologie/Palaeo/Palbot/seite3.html Has some very good information on the subject. The Devonian saw four major groups of land plants consisting of a large variety in comparison to the Silurian. Also the Silurian saw some enigmatic plants which are very small and size. http://steurh.home.xs4all.nl/eng/old1.html I am still searching for aquatic plants but am having little luck so far. But I shall keep on looking!

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

Oh... I forgot to add thay there does seem to be a defined central mass or "leader" running from left to right in the first over head picture.

This in a close up photo from the far left side of the over head, intial picture. This area is the best location to look "down" on the object, viewing the branching structures that are perpendicular to the central leader. This area is near the previous close up photos.

Edited August 15, 2013 by pinkpantherbeekeeper

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

My searches haven't been fruitful so far. But on the plus side, I have learned about several other things

[Plantguy]

The symmetry of your find does make you want to believe it could be some kind of plant....but I sure dont know from the photos...I want to believe it is. By any chance has fossildawg seen this yet...sometimes local knowledge can see/interpret details/things live that a photo just doesnt convey. Local knowledge of previous plant finds helps reaffirm possibilities sometimes.

It looks like there were some Silurian algae (Manitoba sp.) from the Kokomo member of the Wabash Fm according to this link--2nd item down.

http://www.newark.osu.edu/facultystaff/personal/jstjohn/Documents/Cool-fossils/Silurian-marine-algae.htm

It might be interesting to also look up the lithology/paleontology of different members that make up the Wabash Formation in various literature sources to see what the descriptions suggest are found within. Do you know what member this is?

Regards, Chris

[Indy]

I keep thinking about mineral ...

similar to what we see in moss agates

[AgrilusHunter]

Chris (Plantguy), I've tried researching this as well ... no luck. Over the past few years I've seen a lot of Indiana fossils at The Field, the Indiana State Museum, and at Indiana University and I don't recall any Silurian age plants material like this. I think this might be mineral staining. It does have symmetry to it though, so I hope I'm wrong!

[Indy]

Question ...

Is this the only such rock with this feature you saw

or is it one of a number you noticed and only collected this one?

[pinkpantherbeekeeper]

Thanks guys! I will keep doing what limited research I can. Just keep giving to paths to check and I will try my best to follow them. Indy I agree with it looking like the mossy agate. I will try to tie down what member is exposed at the site. From my roadside geology book, it is basically the only roadcut exposing bedrock for quite a while in north-eastern Indiana. The book also mentioned a railroad track cut in the town of Wabash that has been studied but fails to mention by whom. Hopefully I will be back at the site next weekend if all works out.

Thanks,

Chris

Edit: This was one of at least two rocks with these features. The second had the "lobes" with the same spacing but not the central "leader" or "trunk." I only collected this one. There might have been a third but I can not be for sure.

Edited August 17, 2013 by pinkpantherbeekeeper

[Plantguy]

I keep thinking about mineral ...

similar to what we see in moss agates

Question ...

Is this the only such rock with this feature you saw

or is it one of a number you noticed and only collected this one?

Good question Indy...I'm definitely not sold on plant ID and throw it out there for discussion...I respect your experience and local familiarity. I was reading something recently about how our brains see things and try to make shapes/images into things we recognize whether we want to or not. I see live plants up close all day every day and a few fossils ones for fun as well and will admit that my brain tries to use that as a reference point when seeing patterns in fossil unknowns...I try to be objective but acknowledge this shortcoming. Its a disease I got from a plant for sure! Regards, Chris

[Indy]

Don't feel bad ... We all have the same disease

When the eye sees an unfamiliar shape ...

the brain immediately goes to work providing images of the familiar.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Indy

[Plantguy]

Don't feel bad ... We all have the same disease

When the eye sees an unfamiliar shape ...

the brain immediately goes to work providing images of the familiar.

Whats really drives me a little crazy is not being able to hold alot of these unknowns and look at them up close and under a loop/scope and I miss thinsectioning the unknown things! Regards, Chris

[Indy]

That is a problem for me also.

Often I will download the posted pictures and increase the size to see more detail.

Sometimes its helpful and other times its not ...

Nothing like holding the fossil in hand and using a loop to see detail.

Over time I've tried several techniques to show magnifications

on my websites ... Here is one technique

Just keep clicking on the picture to see 4 levels of magnification.

Link

Edited August 17, 2013 by Indy

[Plantguy]

That is a problem for me also.

Often I will download the posted pictures and increase the size to see more detail.

Sometimes its helpful and other times its not ...

Nothing like holding the fossil in hand and using a loop to see detail.

Over time I've tried several techniques to show magnifications

on my websites ... Here is one technique

Just keep clicking on the picture to see 4 levels of magnification.

Link

Nice link and fossils! Regards, Chris

[PaleoTerra]

Definite symmetry around a central axis! The "lobes", although not well preserved enough to show actual margins, do show a repetitive pattern and appear to be defining the planes of fracture, plus, if you look at the way the matrix has fractured near the " leader" you can tell it was fracturing, albeit roughly, around a cylindrical central core. I'd say you certainly have something there. Possibly a new Silurian algae species or perhaps a fruiting body of an already described species, but definitely something fossilized!

Edited August 18, 2013 by PaleoTerra