Jump to content
Welsh Wizard

Have We Found A Lower Jurassic Dinosaur?

Recommended Posts

Diceros

I don't think anyone needs convincing that sheep are stupid - the sheep dogs run circles around them. I'll bet they don't fall off cliffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

Six days to go!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FossilDAWG

I don't think anyone needs convincing that sheep are stupid - the sheep dogs run circles around them. I'll bet they don't fall off cliffs.

Not unless they slip on all the lemmings.

Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

Well, going back to the original question "Have we found a lower Jurassic Dinosaur?", I guess the answer is yes.

If you do a search on "Welsh Dino", there are all sorts of stories and pictures in the media from yesterday's unveiling. The paper is still a work in progress but it has been completed and we do have a name but unfortunately it's got to go through due process.

We hope you've enjoyed the story so far. I've posted this on UK site but for completeness, here is a list of acknowledgements. A true amateur-professional colloboration:

Acknowledgements

Nick and Rob Hanigan would like to thank

Their wives and families, for all their help, support and patience over the past 15 months.

Byron Blessed, Entrepreneur and Palaeontologist: for being the first professional to agree that the find was a dinosaur and for providing invaluable advice.

Craig Chivers, Artist and Fossil Preparator; for his excellent work in conserving and preparing the specimen.

Dr Cindy Howells, Curator at Cardiff Museum, for her support for amateur fossil collectors and for her working with us to house the dinosaur in Cardiff Museum.

Dr Dave Martill, Reader in Paleobiology, Explorer and Big Personality for all his energy and enthusiasm and for agreeing to lead on the studying and description of the dinosaur.

Dr Caroline Buttler, Head of Palaeontology at Cardiff Museum of Natural History, for making all the arrangements for the dinosaur to go on exhibition and for helping us navigate the bureaucracy.

Dr John Nudds, Senior Lecturer in Palaeontology at Manchester University for all his advice and work on the stratigraphy of Lavernock Point.

Steve Vidovich, Palaeontology Student for his tireless work in analysing the dinosaur, doing the cladistics and working out that it was a new species.

Dean Lomax, Palaeontologist and Author, for his infectious enthusiasm and for including a mention of our find in his recent book “Dinosaurs of the British Isles”.

Phil Manning, Professor of Natural History at Manchester University, for providing a huge amount of advice and for arranging the CT scans and X-Rays of the skull.

Professor Judith Adams OBE, Consultant and Honorary Professor of Diagnostic Radiology for carrying out the CT scans and X-Rays and interpreting the data.

Dr Sandra Chapman, Curator of Fossil Reptiles, Amphibians and Birds at the Natural History Museum for allowing a viewing of the historic collection of dinosaurs held by the Museum.

Dr Richard Bevins, Keeper of Natural Sciences at Cardiff Museum of Natural History for all his support in getting us this far.

Jonathan Bow for generously sending us a bone from the same fall that could’ve been part of the dinosaur but unfortunately was part of an ichthyosaur jaw.

Stu Pond for help and guidance on the use of photogrammetry.

Bob Nicholls, Paleao-Artist for bringing the animal to life and doing such as excellent job on the artists reconstruction.

David Anderson, Cardiff Museum Director General, Ken Skates, Assembly Member and Rhys Jones for such great speeches on the day.

To all the amateur fossil collectors from the British Fossil Hunters Forum, The Fossil Forum and UK Fossils, for their support, ideas and enthusiasm.

All of the media for turning up in force and for such positive reporting of the story

There were lots of other people involved that helped with photography and the displays but the list would become too long for this post, so apologies if we've missed anyone.

The paper and name will follow shortly.

Edited by Welsh Wizard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnJ

Nothing but giant smiles here, Nick.

:goodjob:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auspex

I cannot recall ever being so amazed, delighted. astonished, excited, and enthralled by the saga of a Forum member's discovery!

I am more than a little proud to know you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carl

Ditto Auspex. This is simply fantastic! I personally hate the animosity we often see in this country between amateurs and professionals and this is a triumph for the Forum, our Welsh friends, and paleontology in general. Simply an outstanding outcome to a wonderful story! BRAVO!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

I cannot recall ever being so amazed, delighted. astonished, excited, and enthralled by the saga of a Forum member's discovery!

I am more than a little proud to know you :)

Thanks Auspex

We've been totally overwhelmed with the coverage and positive responses we've had back.

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

Ditto Auspex. This is simply fantastic! I personally hate the animosity we often see in this country between amateurs and professionals and this is a triumph for the Forum, our Welsh friends, and paleontology in general. Simply an outstanding outcome to a wonderful story! BRAVO!!!

Thanks Carl

I'm convinced that with modern technology, the boundaries between public and private collections will start to blur. I see no reason why private objects can't be scanned and digitised and described in journals.

It has been interesting and not without a certain amount of frustration getting this far. There's a lot of bureacracy to deal with and plenty of issues to deal with. You also have to deal with set wasy of doing things and we don't do things like that sort of approaches. For example, yesterday, someone questioned our logic for going public before the paper was published as that wasn't the done thing. I'm not sure why as I don't see the issue but this may be due to naivity or stupidity, who knows.

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diceros

Nick - So when will the news release be put on Fossil Forum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carl

The main risk for using specimens not in academic institutions is that the owner can decide who to and who not to show the specimen. Any scientist with the proper credentials should have access to any and all such specimens (provided they haven't done something to breach that trust) in order for science to be science. Also, the level of care a specimen would get in an academic collection is generally much higher as is the security and permanence for the object. Believe me I know I am talking about ideals but that is a quick and dirty about the risks people think about here.

As for going public before publication the risk is that someone unscrupulous can scoop you. In theory, someone could take your photos and do a really quick description and publish it before you folks. THAT would be a disgusting tragedy. I actually can't think of an example of that ever happening but it's scary enough to make folks wary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diceros

To expand a bit on Carl's reply above. I have been denied permission to examine fossils in two collections in the New York area. First, at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City (Carl's own workplace), and second, at the Monmouth Area Paleontology Society (MAPS) collection in New Jersey. It's not always enough to place a fossil in an academic institution - the institution has to have ethics.

I also wanted to compliment you on your very thorough acknowledgements - not everyone is so thorough. I especially want to commend you for having a cladist study your dinosaur skeleton. Just making comparisons of the similarity of a specimen to others (the old-fashioned way - phenetics) is pointless, as they can be similar for different reasons.

One quick question - what do they mean, in the UK, when someone is said to be a "Reader" in a museum? Probably not that the others are illiterate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auspex

...As for going public before publication the risk is that someone unscrupulous can scoop you. In theory, someone could take your photos and do a really quick description and publish it before you folks...

The feud that ultimately ruined Cope and Marsh involved a lot of bad behavior founded in priority lust. It is not for nothing that this dark saga is referred to as "The Bone Wars". The aversion to such a scandal within academia is now deeply institutionalized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

Nick - So when will the news release be put on Fossil Forum?

Hi Diceros

What do you mean by the news release? There are numerous articles out there on various websites. Should I put links to a few?

Thanks

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike from North Queensland

Congratulations on your find. It must be a relief that the wait is nearly over with the preparation and describing of your important find. Just went and googled the article, all I could do after reading the article and looking at the photos of the displayed specimen is drool. Nice prep and display.

Mike

Edited by Mike from North Queensland

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot

:wub::popcorn:

Are We going to get to see any new pictures of this amazing find?

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scylla

I saw the articles and wondered if this was the Welsh fossil I had seen on TFF. Glad to see it was! Thanks for all that work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

Congratulations on your find. It must be a relief that the wait is nearly over with the preparation and describing of your important find. Just went and googled the article, all I could do after reading the article and looking at the photos of the displayed specimen is drool. Nice prep and display.Mike

Thanks Mike

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've only just noticed the newer comments.

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

:wub::popcorn:

Are We going to get to see any new pictures of this amazing find?

Tony

Hi Tony

Have you seen the paper that was published in Plosone. There's quite a few photos in there, although not all the bones we found for some reason. I've got some photos of the skull block casts we did before prep (they are not in the paper either) and there's some bones on fossil of the month, which were found over Christmas.

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welsh Wizard

I saw the articles and wondered if this was the Welsh fossil I had seen on TFF. Glad to see it was! Thanks for all that work.

Thanks Scylla.

We've been asked to do some papers on the find, how we arranged x-raying, ct scanning and prepping, the collaboration with museum and university we arranged and the publicity. I'm mulling over how to approach this as I'm not sure where this type of article would be best going?

Any suggestions welcome.

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnJ

Thanks Scylla.

We've been asked to do some papers on the find, how we arranged x-raying, ct scanning and prepping, the collaboration with museum and university we arranged and the publicity. I'm mulling over how to approach this as I'm not sure where this type of article would be best going?

Any suggestions welcome.

Nick

Nick, for purposes on TFF, you could create a Blog article and link to it in this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FossilDudeCO

what an amazing find! congrats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Susan from PA

OMG! What an amazing find! Congratulations to you and your brother! I'm sitting here crying reading the post. So happy for you! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnJ

Tying this story together:  LINK  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
*THEO*

Ultra cool find:drool:!

The Dinosaur of Nick is present in this documentary - 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×