Wrangellian Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I found these this summer all on one day within close proximity of each other, and am finally getting around to posting them today for people's opinions. #1, not as good as #2 below but my hunch is it's the same type. It is little more than 1cm across. Sorry if my pics aren't great, I tried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 #2, this one seems to be more complete and has part and counterpart. Amazingly I did not split this myself, but found each half separately a few feet apart. I don't know who would have split it and not collected it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't me as I think I would have noticed it before and take it home! And I had been over the spot umpteen times before that day. Ain't collecting funny? BTW I am (reluctantly) using a new OS (Win.8) and it's not allowing me to select multiple pics at a time for uploading by hitting Shift and clicking on successive files like I used to be able to do, I'm having to attach and post one at a time.. what a pain.. If anyone can help me there too I'd appreciate it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 #3.. This one looks like a raninid? Very small 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I'm going to suggest Cenomanocarcinus beardi for the first two specimens. (note: the link is to MB Fossilcrab's excellent web site). The last one is a Joeranina. There are two species known from the Haslam, Joeranina platys and Joeranina harveyi. I'll have to look up the differences to say which species you have, but the specimen is quite good so that should be possible. These species were formerly considered to be Notopocorystes, Cretacoranina or Eucorystes. These species belong in the Paleocorystoidea, which do resemble Raninoidea. Are these from your usual site? They are very nice! Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks Don, they are both of the same superfamily? MB has Maastrichtian for the Trent River Joeranina, that can't be right... These are from the site that Peter Ward came up to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Eric, Cenomanocarcinus and Joeranina are indeed both in the Paleocorystoidea. If you look at the whole group they don't look as if they all belong together, but they are united by shared features and the gross differences in overall shape are more superficial. The age information on MBs site has an error, as there is no Maestrichtian anywhere on the Trent River. The original description of Joeranina harveyi lists the species from "Komoks" (presumably what is now Courtney) and Hornby Island. However I have never seen the species from Hornby, but it is fairly common in the Haslam, both around Courtney and around Nanaimo. The original specimens were collected by Harvey and sent to Woodward in England, who described the species. There are other examples of material Harvey collected near Courtney and Nanaimo being mislabeled as Hornby. Perhaps fossile or other Vancouver Island collectors will correct me, but I think Joeranina occurs only in the lower Nanaimo Group formations, particularly the Haslam, and so would be Santonian, perhaps extending into the lower Campanian. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Yes, I was thinking they look so different but I guess a superfamily is a pretty broad grouping, so.... Komoks would have to be Comox so yes, Comox Valley = Courtenay. I have seen that spelling in old pub's too. I guess there isn't too much in common between Hornby and the Haslam, maybe some genera but no species, I don't know as much about the crabs but I would doubt any of those would be common to both either. I have seen other things like ammos listed as being from Hornby or Comox/Courtenay/Trent, I'm sure that's due to collectors forgetting which site they got it from and mislabelling it. Edited October 18, 2014 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Eric, Cenomanocarcinus and Joeranina are indeed both in the Paleocorystoidea. If you look at the whole group they don't look as if they all belong together, but they are united by shared features and the gross differences in overall shape are more superficial. The age information on MBs site has an error, as there is no Maestrichtian anywhere on the Trent River. The original description of Joeranina harveyi lists the species from "Komoks" (presumably what is now Courtney) and Hornby Island. However I have never seen the species from Hornby, but it is fairly common in the Haslam, both around Courtney and around Nanaimo. The original specimens were collected by Harvey and sent to Woodward in England, who described the species. There are other examples of material Harvey collected near Courtney and Nanaimo being mislabeled as Hornby. Perhaps fossile or other Vancouver Island collectors will correct me, but I think Joeranina occurs only in the lower Nanaimo Group formations, particularly the Haslam, and so would be Santonian, perhaps extending into the lower Campanian. Don Hi Don, You're right, I got my J. platys frome Ebay and it was not well labelled or perhaps I was wrong. I'll correct it when possible. BTW, Wrangellian, congratulations by your finds, and the Cenomanocarcinus looks strange to me... curious. http://www.mbfossilcrabs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Don, You're right, I got my J. platys frome Ebay and it was not well labelled or perhaps I was wrong. I'll correct it when possible. BTW, Wrangellian, congratulations by your finds, and the Cenomanocarcinus looks strange to me... curious. Thanks MB. These look strange to me too but they are both incomplete and I think that's why I am having trouble working out which end is which.. I see a lot of incorrect or sorely incomplete data with fossils sold on ebay and even on some of the more reputable dealers' websites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I cannot help with id, but these are fantastic finds! Good work Wrangellian. "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 I cannot help with id, but these are fantastic finds! Good work Wrangellian. Thanks, but they are very small, esp. the last one (18mm), it's surprising I didn't mistake them for bird droppings and pass over them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thanks, but they are very small, esp. the last one (18mm), it's surprising I didn't mistake them for bird droppings and pass over them! Hey Eric, This is really dumb, but I'm finding if I bend down at the knees and closer to the ground I'm finding all kinds of stuff that I was passing over just walking about at eye level. Is been amazing of late. Seriously, some of the stuff that is in the 1" or smaller size and same color as the matrix and doesnt stand out I've been passing over. Actually almost missed an entire little Meg tooth and tortoise spur in the past 2 weeks! Could be I also need a new prescription for the glasses but we ain't going there!....LOL. Nice crabby finds! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hey Eric, This is really dumb, but I'm finding if I bend down at the knees and closer to the ground I'm finding all kinds of stuff that I was passing over just walking about at eye level. Is been amazing of late. Seriously, some of the stuff that is in the 1" or smaller size and same color as the matrix and doesnt stand out I've been passing over. Actually almost missed an entire little Meg tooth and tortoise spur in the past 2 weeks! Could be I also need a new prescription for the glasses but we ain't going there!....LOL. Nice crabby finds! Regards, Chris Thanks Chris, I wear glasses for nearsightedness - never have had good vision - so I know that trick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfossilsteve Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hey Wrangellian I just saw this string. Cool crab finds. I really don't think the first crab is a Cenomanocarcinus beardi as posed by FossilDAWG. I think it very well could be a new species and you might want to show it to Fossile or Torrey Nyborg. Good luck. Curious to know what Peter Ward came up with regarding the site geology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossisle Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hey Wrangellian Peter left me an example of #2 when he was here. I think your #1 and #2 are both parts of a Linuparis head shield . #3 is Joeranina platys Cephalopods rule!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Thanks guys, I'll look into that. I don't think Peter ever gave me a clear answer but as far as I can tell the site is Santonian Haslam Fm like most of my other sites but the fauna is a little different because the deposition is shallower(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I missed this topic the first time around too, Eric; really interesting crabs. I've enjoyed learning more about the Cretaceous genera. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Thanks, I could stand to learn more about them too.. I still can't tell for sure what #s 1 and 2 are, for lack of good pics of Linuparus etc, so I'll have to take people's word for it. Edited November 24, 2014 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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