Norwegian Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I don't seem to find a clear answer. Some places it says it's illegal, other places it says it's legal. It seems the law have change over time? In 2015 - is there any law agains buying chinese fossils from China? Edited September 2, 2015 by Norwegian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Its my understanding that Chinese cultural property laws strictly forbid the export of fossils from China. There are strict penalties in place for exporters. Yet you see many fossils sold on auction sites and online dealers. Most are fake but real ones do get through and sellers that export bare that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwegian Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thank you for the reply. But do anyone have the name, § and text of this law? Any link to chinese laws online? All I have read so far online seems to be just claims and thoughts - not any hard facts. Also if it is indeed a law against selling chinese fossils to other countries: Is this law only about export (the seller), not about buying them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) While it is fairly long (44 pages), you might find this article from Boston College Internation and Comparative Law Review (2000) interesting: The Confuciusornis Sanctus : An Examination of Chinese Cultural Property Law and Policy in Action. -Joe Edited September 2, 2015 by Fruitbat Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The Chinese law extends the term relics to include fossils see attached PDF. The term relics has been a point of discussion in many legal circles but I would not want to challenge it in court. I'm not a legal person but a similar law for Mongolian fossils convicted a US seller of a Tarbosaur skeleton but did not take any action on the auction house or winning bidder. My guess is the worst action would be loss of goods and monies in that purchase. china_lawprotectionclt_entof.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 As I understand it, the fish fossils of Lycoptera are so numerous, common, and thouroughly studied, that they are the only vertebrate fossils that are allowed to be exported from China. I believe that invertebrate fossils such as trilobites are allowed to be exported. At least the common ones such as Changaspis, Coronocephalus, and Arthricocephalus. Here are some more links for you: eBay Fossil Forum - previously asked same question. I own several of the fish, and a few trilobites. Not sure anyone has a definitive answer, except the Chinese Government. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaforth Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 As I understand it, the fish fossils of Lycoptera are so numerous, common, and thouroughly studied, that they are the only vertebrate fossils that are allowed to be exported from China. I believe that invertebrate fossils such as trilobites are allowed to be exported. At least the common ones such as Changaspis, Coronocephalus, and Arthricocephalus. Here are some more links for you: eBay Fossil Forum - previously asked same question. I own several of the fish, and a few trilobites. Not sure anyone has a definitive answer, except the Chinese Government. Regards, Interesting stuff. So, Fossildude, do you reckon the many Chinese trilobite tails fro mthe common species that are for sale on eBay are allowed to be transported out of China? And they are genuine? I have heard so many horror stories about Chinese fossils that I never wanted to touch one. Still, I'd like to buy a couple tails if they are genuine & legit. Any thoughts? Cheers Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Interesting stuff. So, Fossildude, do you reckon the many Chinese trilobite tails fro mthe common species that are for sale on eBay are allowed to be transported out of China? And they are genuine? I have heard so many horror stories about Chinese fossils that I never wanted to touch one. Still, I'd like to buy a couple tails if they are genuine & legit. Any thoughts? Cheers Pat Pat, Please, call me Tim. The "Fossildude19" thing is a bit too long to type. I think so. I think that most invertebrates that are common are allowed. The only fake Chinese fossils you will see will be the vertebrate fossils. Birds, dinosaurs, turtles, lizards, and crocs/alligators, and, of course, the Keichosaurs. I don't believe China fakes the inverts like Morocco does. At least, I haven't seen any questionable trilobites that appeared fake on the auction sites. Remember, I am just going by what I have read around the internet,... and we all know you can trust THAT source. "It MUST be true if found on the internet!" Anyways, Just my two cents. Regards, Edited September 2, 2015 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaforth Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Pat, Please, call me Tim. The "Fossildude19" thing is a bit too long to type. I think so. I think that most invertebrates that are common are allowed. The only fake Chinese fossils you will see will be the vertebrate fossils. Birds, dinosaurs, turtles, lizards, and crocs/alligators, and, of course, the Keichosaurs. I don't believe China fakes the inverts like Morocco does. At least, I haven't seen any questionable trilobites that appeared fake on the auction sites. Remember, I am just going by what I have read around the internet,... and we all know you can trust THAT source. "It MUST be true if found on the internet!" Anyways, Just my two cents. Regards, OK Tim! I will Thanks for your insights. I am relatively new to the fossil business so I greatly appreciate the opinions of a veteran shale splitter I will then proceed and look into some cool Jastrowi trilo parts from China then. Thanks for putting my mind at ease! Greetings from overseas! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The Chinese Lycoptera fossils are so abundant that Chinese customs makes no effort to bar their export, and there is little incentive to forge them. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplomado Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Like others said, I have read there is an exemption for Lycoptera . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwegian Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Does anyone have a link to any site that shows that this exemption for Lycoptera is official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgehiker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Does anyone have a link to any site that shows that this exemption for Lycoptera is official? Many jurisdictions have exceptions but they do not pertain to a particular type of fossil. In Alberta we can export fossils but a permit is needed to do so. I can't just send a Placenticeras specimen to anyone but could apply for a permit to do so and, if all in order, probably no issue. But it must be sent with a document. I doubt if the Chinese just give the green light to the export of Lycoptera. This would be open to misidentification, abuse, etc. Authorities may issue a permit for the overseas sale of a specimen but documentation would be needed. Anyways, this is not a light offense in China. They export zillions of fake vertebrates that are exceptionally well done and can fool even experts. From my limited experience in China I can't imagine someone smuggling out vertebrate fossils unless the return was worth the risk of life imprisonment, death, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Post 15 of the link. It's in Chinese but one of our members did a quick translation http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/31860-is-it-illegal-to-buy-fossils-in-china/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pocock Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Very interesting thread, I watched a TV program on the BBC last year that made the claim that lots of fish fossils are fakes that are sold out of China, however it did state that the matrix was correct and the imprints are made from real fossils, the finished fake was put along side a real fossil and the palaeontologist who was hosting the program could not pick the fake out. I will try and track down the program and post what it was called. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplomado Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Very interesting thread, I watched a TV program on the BBC last year that made the claim that lots of fish fossils are fakes that are sold out of China, however it did state that the matrix was correct and the imprints are made from real fossils, the finished fake was put along side a real fossil and the palaeontologist who was hosting the program could not pick the fake out. I will try and track down the program and post what it was called. Regards Mike Yes, I would like to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwegian Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Post 15 of the link. It's in Chinese but one of our members did a quick translation http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/31860-is-it-illegal-to-buy-fossils-in-china/ So it seems that that china have two categories of fossils? 1. Fossils that are not allowed to be exported at all 2. Some types of more common fossils that are allowed to be exported if the paperwork is OK Lets focus on the fossils that are ok to export if the paperwork is in order: What if the exporter and/or reseller does not have papers of the fossils? What can be the consequence for this exporter? the reseller? the buyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpevahouse Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 China has a very long history of being ripped off by European antiquities dealers. Some of the greatest cultural artifacts of the world had already been carted out of China by the turn of the century by agents of European museums. I can imagine they might have become somewhat sensitive about the export of their antiquities today. How they are handing it today I don't know but I suspect it's a sensitive issue. Or at least it's about time it became one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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