What!?

[Trilobiting 10]

Found this online. The seller claims it's an oreodont brain cast (with one end broken off). Was collected from White River Formation, South Dakota. It does to similar to an endocast.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Trilobiting

[Guguita2104 141]

Hi !

Just a rock or a weathered fossil shell steinkern (I can't tell you from the photos), sorry. Soft tissue preservation on that cases is EXTREMELY rare.

Regards,

Edited August 8, 2016 by Guguita2104

[Missourian 608]

BRAINS!!!.....

[FossilDudeCO 582]

Quick someone call the scarecrow!

And make sure to tell him to be more specific next time

[Canadawest 892]

Oreodont brain casts are somewhat common fossils.

It looks like one to me.

The brains soft tissue was replaced with sediment and hardened.

I have no idea if the fossil offered is legitimate but...

Edited August 8, 2016 by Canadawest

[Herb 913]

nice rock

[DPS Ammonite 2,349]

Oreodont brain casts are somewhat common fossils.

It looks like one to me.

The brains soft tissue was replaced with sediment and hardened.

I have no idea if the fossil offered is legitimate but...

It is not a cast of the brain as it does not show any of the crenulations of the outside of the brain. It however may be a mold of the interior of the braincase (after the brain has rotted away) that shows the features on the inside of the skull. In other words... fill a human skull with sediment and let it harden. The interior mold of the skull does not look much like a human brain.

Edited August 9, 2016 by DPS Ammonite

[piranha 5,368]

The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast.

 

 

figure from:

 

Macrini, T. E. (2009)

Description of a digital cranial endocast of Bathygenys reevesi (Merycoidodontidae; Oreodontoidea) and implications for apomorphy-based diagnosis of isolated, natural endocasts.

Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 29(4):1199-1211

 

 

 

[Troodon 13,751]

I agree it's looks like the real deal, thanks for pointing that out. Removed my comment from the post.

[Trilobiting 10]

The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast.

IMG1.jpg

figure from:

Macrini, T. E. (2009)

Description of a digital cranial endocast of Bathygenys reevesi (Merycoidodontidae; Oreodontoidea) and implications for apomorphy-based diagnosis of isolated, natural endocasts.

Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 29(4):1199-1211

Considering the end is broken off. It does look like an oreodont endocast.

[Nimravis 4,990]

Here are 8 examples of my Endocasts.

[DPS Ammonite 2,349]

The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast.

IMG1.jpg

figure from:

Macrini, T. E. (2009)

Description of a digital cranial endocast of Bathygenys reevesi (Merycoidodontidae; Oreodontoidea) and implications for apomorphy-based diagnosis of isolated, natural endocasts.

Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 29(4):1199-1211

I mean no ridicule. An "cranial endocast" is an interior mold of the cranium. A cranium is the skull and not the brain. Thus the rock is a fossil of the cranium. Nearly all infillings of animal skulls are interior molds of a skulls (AKA endocasts). A cranial endocast gives clues as to the dimensions of the brain but is not a fossilized or petrified brain. Similarly a clam steinkern is not a cast of the clams internal organs, it is a mold made against the interior of the shell.

[Trilobiting 10]

Here are 8 examples of my Endocasts.

IMG_5661.JPGIMG_5662.JPGIMG_5663.JPGIMG_5664.JPGIMG_5665.JPGIMG_5666.JPGIMG_5667.JPGIMG_5668.JPG

Nice ones.

[Nimravis 4,990]

Nice ones.

Thanks- they are always a favorite of mine.

[piranha 5,368]

I mean no ridicule...

I was not referring to your post.

[jpc 2,228]

Yes, very likely a White River brain cast, albeit rather worn. Whether it is oreodont or not is tougher to confirm... There are several other animals found there that are the same size, but oreos are the most common.

[RJB 2,261]

Just WOW! it never entered my 'brain' to even think there are cranial endocast out in the fossil world! This is a very cool thread.

RB

[MarcusFossils 117]

The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast.

....

Considering the fact that this fossil is being sold as a fossil brain (and thus exhibiting soft tissue preservation), I’d say that the ridicule is well warranted. There a big difference between a fossil brain and an endocast, a difference which the seller conveniently ignores in order to attract buyers that otherwise might not be tempted to drop 50$.

Edited August 9, 2016 by MarcusFossils

[JohnBrewer 1,664]

A brain, now that IS cool. Whoda thought. I want one now.

[JohnJ 3,111]

Considering the fact that this fossil is being sold as a fossil brain (and thus exhibiting soft tissue preservation), I’d say that the ridicule is well warranted. There a big difference between a fossil brain and an endocast, a difference which the seller conveniently ignores in order to attract buyers that otherwise might not be tempted to drop 50$.

Education is warranted...ridicule is not the purpose of this sub-forum.

[CraigHyatt 267]

A brain, now that IS cool. Whoda thought. I want one now.

Me too. Mine needs some backup. ;-)

[piranha 5,368]

On 8/9/2016 at 11:51 AM, MarcusFossils said:

Considering the fact that this fossil is being sold as a fossil brain (and thus exhibiting soft tissue preservation), I’d say that the ridicule is well warranted. There a big difference between a fossil brain and an endocast, a difference which the seller conveniently ignores in order to attract buyers that otherwise might not be tempted to drop 50$.

 

 

I wasn't looking for a debate on semantics. Without any supporting evidence, it was unfair to make fun of a legitimate fossil.

The seller's intent was not to mislead anyone. Although the auction title uses the word brain, the item description states:

"Here's a real treasure- a fossil brain cast of an Oreodont from the Oligocene period."

It's unfair to assume the seller 'conveniently ignores' anything. It's not a crime to use a sensational headline to attract attention.

 

 

 

[DPS Ammonite 2,349]

I wasn't looking for a debate on semantics. Without any supporting evidence, it was unfair to make fun of a legitimate fossil.

The seller's intent was not to mislead anyone. Although the auction title uses the word brain, the item description states:

"Here's a real treasure- a fossil brain cast of an Oreodont from the Oligocene period."

It's unfair to assume the seller 'conveniently ignores' anything. It's not a crime to use a sensational headline to attract attention.

There is much confusion in both the lay and sometimes the professional paleontology community as to the proper definitions of cast, mold and endocast. I wish that the term "endocast" had never been invented because of the confusion that it causes. An endocast is a term of art that means: an interior mold of the braincase or skull. A brain cast in not a synonym of an endocast even though they look similar. I agree that we should not be overly critical of the seller. Hopefully the seller and the buyers know that it is not the actual fossilized brain. Someone could educate the seller about the difference. After all, we at the Fossil Forum try to civilly argue points and educate others without harsh criticism or confrontation.