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Crinoid or Vertebrae


ischua

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As I leaving work tonight I spied a small rock with small round somethings on it. Each round has hole thru the center surrounded by four more holes around the OD are four holes in line with the other four.

IMG_1131.JPG

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I think crinoid is a good guess, but see what others say.

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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I have no clue as to age as this is parking lot gravel so some place in New York. The rock is about 1 inch around 3/8 thick

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Crinoid, for sure. ;)

Regards,

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These fossils with the five-way radial symmetry (minus one) have come up before but I forget what was decided. I have a columnal with a six petal body cavity, but I've only ever seen one. I do see what would be the right size for an associated cirrus on the first image, lower right so crinoid seems likely. Does anyone know which genus or family can exhibit this four-way symmetry instead of the usual five-way?

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This is driving me nuts! I can't find anything close to this four way pattern, The segments are round not flat with dimples around the OD. It would look like beads in a string if

they were all strung.,

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my first thought when seeing these is crinoid. But, I am far from an expert. Hopefully someone can come up with something definitive.

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Civil war bone buttons?

post-20989-0-13102700-1471049577_thumb.jpeg

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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This is driving me nuts! I can't find anything close to this four way pattern, The segments are round not flat with dimples around the OD. It would look like beads in a string if

they were all strung.,

If you mean spherical not disc-shaped it's driving me nuts too! That part wasn't clear from the pictures. I could swear I've seen this before but...

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I think what would help would be:

1. Exact diameter of as many as can be measured.

2. Side profile photo of as many as can be photographed.

3. Microphotograph of the surface.

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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It's about the size of a BB but with cupped ends where you see the holes the the sides are dimpled with small holes to the inner four. Could this be where the cirrus attach ? I can see 6 or 7 in the matrix all the same size.

Edited by ischua
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I haven't found any crinoids with 4-way symmetry yet. I also checked echinoids in case they were worn specimens. It seems significant there are a number grouped together like that.

So the diameter is about 4.5 mm?

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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Maybe the fossil is from an organism that has a different symmetry than normal. I have seen bearded iris and Trillium plants with 4 of everything instead of three. Could it be a blastoid?

EDIT: There is another fossil in the lower right part of the rock to consider... crinoid column?

post-12000-0-70930700-1471053079_thumb.jpg

Edited by DPS Ammonite
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A little better side shot.

attachicon.gifIMG_1135.JPG

Can you get full on side shot? I swear from that angle it looks like a fish vertebra.

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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Maybe the fossil is from an organism that has a different symmetry than normal. I have seen bearded iris and Trillium plants with 4 of everything instead of three. Could it be a blastoid?

I had never heard of blastoids. Weird looking critters. ;-)

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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This is off the wall: from my robotics experience, if the 4 channels were for muscles and the center for nervous system, this would be an animal that wriggled in three dimensions like a worm, not two dimensions like a fish. That's assuming these are some sort of vertebrae.

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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I had never heard of blastoids. Weird looking critters. ;-)

You won't find them in Texas Craig. Those walnut-on-a-stalk-looking echinoiderms can be had in Oklahoma though but since they also have five-way symmetry I think we can rule them out too.

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It's about the size of a BB but with cupped ends where you see the holes the the sides are dimpled with small holes to the inner four. Could this be where the cirrus attach ? I can see 6 or 7 in the matrix all the same size.

Cirri attach on a node rather than a dimple or hole. The small size of the string of segments is what made me think of a cirra rather than a column. The smallest crinoids can be just a few millimeters though so maybe that only left room for four-way symmetry :P

Edited by BobWill
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I found 2 types of animals with 4 fold symmetry: box jellies (I have never seen hard parts) and conularids which have hard shells including a piece at the bottom to attach themselves to an object (the fossil?).

See Wikipedia links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conulariida

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_jellyfish

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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Don't discount the possibility that it may be a button in a manmade rock such as concrete or the lesser possibity of a recent naturally cemented rock such as gravel cemented in a calcium rich spring or creek.

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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Can you get full on side shot? I swear from that angle it looks like a fish vertebra.

I will try to get better picture in the morning.

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This is interesting. It has "hard parts" that are not described.

https://ucrtoday.ucr.edu/22458

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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Don't discount the possibility that it may be a button in a manmade rock such as concrete or the lesser possibity of a recent naturally cemented rock such as gravel cemented in a calcium rich spring or creek.

Absolutely. Look higher in the thread at the civil war bone button. Near perfect match face on. Not sure about side view.

Only problem is the buttons I saw online were the size of a US dime (18 mm). The specimens at hand are the size of a BB (4.5 mm).

Edited by CraigHyatt

Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer

Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year

Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert

Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous

Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk

Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus

Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html

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