Dealing with questions from the public about your collecting while you are in the field.

[Al Dente]

4 hours ago, stats said:

I was collecting in a road cut in Kansas a few years ago. A man in a truck stopped and asked what I was doing. I told him I was collecting fossils. We talked for about 10 minutes and I showed him a few I had found. He said he owned some of the surrounding land and pointed to the top of a nearby hill that had fossils. He gave me directions to get over there. It was a rich deposit. I collect there now a few times a year when I'm visiting. Very nice guy, unfortunately I haven't seen him since.

I also collect Mazon Creek fossils and have many of the common plants (and jellyfish). I bring some on trips and give some to the workers in rock shops. They have many times given me something in return or we chat for a while and they let me know of nearby localities. It pays to be generous!

Cheers,
Rich

I had a very similar encounter in SE Kansas while collecting a road cut for Pennsylvanian ammonoids. A guy pulled up and asked me if I was having any luck finding fossils, then he told me he had property a half mile away with a new farm pond with a lot of fossils eroding out of the excavated dirt. I went over and found it had the same ammonoids as the road cut but in much better condition.

[MarcoSr]

13 hours ago, ynot said:

@MarcoSr. has told Me that shark denticles are very small.  

This is most likely a ray or skate denticles.

 

Tony

 

Most researchers usually call the scales found in the skin of sharks and rays placoid scales.  The vast majority of these are indeed very small (<1 millimeter Welton 1993).  Brambles can however have much larger ones which are often called dermal thorns.  "Dermal denticles are enlarged bulbous to thorn-like placoid scales found along the midline of the back and tail in many rays." Welton  1993.  The above specimen is a ray dermal denticle like you said.

 

Two examples of placoid scales:

 

 

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

[sixgill pete]

16 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Unfortunately not, I have never found another like it.... but sort of consider it to be in the miocene bramble shark family. I will jiggle @sixgill pete to check for any additional insights.   Jack

 

 

I agree with Tony that it is not a shark dermal denticle. Some type of Myliobatiforme or Rajiforme, is what I am thinking. But do not hold that to be true. Cretaceous rays and skates (which includes Cretaceous sawfish) have some crazy looking dentacles. 

[Shellseeker]

On 1/5/2018 at 12:56 PM, josephstrizhak said:

Hello Shellseeker, do you know what type of denticle that is?

@ynot @Al Dente @MarcoSr @sixgill pete@siteseer No disagreement that this is ray rather than shark.

I was searching and was going to make the point that I find lots of the normal looking ray dermal denticles but not this type.  Also wonder if cretaceous applies to south Florida.

Then I found this from @Harry Pristis. Look at lower right.

 

[Doctor Mud]

Looking forward to catching up on this thread!

 

Some great stories of the good the bad and the darn right weird from the field.

 

 

[fifbrindacier]

On 4 janvier 2018 at 3:49 PM, Uncle Siphuncle said:

Sharing info is cool, but I like to do so with discernment on my own terms.  I don’t feel obligated to spill my guts to strangers if caught flat footed in the field.  I prefer to consider who I’m dealing with, where they live, their long term intentions for use of info gleaned from me, whether the site is public or private, natural or man made, long term or ephemeral, taxa involved, etc.

 

Once I was collecting a site that had a new species I was collecting among other things.  In that situation, I felt that playing dumb and showing oysters was appropriate when questioned.  

 

I’ve spilled my guts before, seen eyes glaze over and slobber form in the corner of the guy’s mouth, meaning that the site just became his “forever site”, tracked up after every rain. 

 

So all scenarios must be considered.  I prefer to give beginners specimens and/or beginner sites.  They are satisfied, important sites remain low key as required, and my generosity remains at my discretion.  

 

That said, I’ve donated thousands of specimes to kids one on one, through Boy Scouts and schools, so I feel I’ve done my part to inspire, but I’ve done it my own way.

On a beach of Normandie, full of ammonites, a man throw an ammonite to his wife. She missed it and it broke. She said he was silly, he answered that there were many of them and she answered back that it represented less money.

I would not like to encounter that kind of people during my hunt, so, when i feel doubt i say i'm interesting in funny looking stones. That's what i answered once to a man that asked what i was doing here on the tone of "What the hell are you doing here ?", i told him i was interested by nice pieces of flint.

On 4 janvier 2018 at 7:35 PM, hrguy54 said:

A few years ago I was collecting at a site that was slowly being developed for a housing tract. It was less than a mile from my home (in a suburb of Dayton, OH) and at a highly visible intersection. The hillside that had been dug out was rich with a wide variety of Ordivician fossils. It was one of my main sources for several years. A police car stopped and the 2 policemen who got out asked me what I was doing, where I lived, etc. I simply said "collecting fossils", they looked at each other quizzically and asked, "What's that?". I was a bit dumbstruck but pulled a few out of my bag and showed them. I told them where I lived as I did so. They still didn't appear to understand about the fossils.

 

I thought they were playing with me. Not yet sure of the situation and being a Human Resource person, I gave them my "politically-correct, hopefully less offensive to the Creationist" description of a fossil, starting with "Scientists believe....", including that they were thought to be over 400 million years old. They pondered what I said and re-examined the fossils in their hands. One of them asked me what I  believe. I responded that I believe the scientists, thinking it had taken a weird turn, and still hoping to see them start laughing. They never did. They walked away from me about 20 feet and huddled, speaking seriously. They soon returned, still looking at me suspiciously, handed the fossils back to me and told me to be careful. Then got in their vehicle and drove away. I was left wondering what had just happened.

 

A few months later I was at the same site and a lone policeman pulled up (same police force) and asked the same initial question. He however soon told me that he had taken a few Geology courses in college and was excited to see what I had found. I gave him several for his son. My faith in the city was restored. Somewhat.

How i understand you 

On 5 janvier 2018 at 5:02 AM, Wrangellian said:

I've usually got the place to myself, and even people who are just out walking their dogs don't ask me anything, just say 'hi' as we pass each other (and I'm glad of it).. despite me looking undoubtedly odd with my stripped-down baby stroller and my grubby coat on.

A while ago, on my way back to my car with a tray full of fossils, a hiker asked me politely if I minded him asking what I was up to. "Fossils" I said. He asked to see them. I showed him once we got to the car where I could set the tray down in the trunk. He complimented me on my finds, and then he pulled out a very nice complete ammonite that he said he had found up there on his hike. Said he just stumbled across it.

Story of my life is, as Confucius said, "Show-off always shown up in showdown". The guy that's not even there to look for fossils gets the find of the day.

 

The luck of the beginner  

On 6 janvier 2018 at 3:08 AM, KimTexan said:

There was a freeway expansion a year or so ago where they dug up vast amounts of rock from the Austin Chalk Formation and dumped them in a field along the freeway a few miles away. I wanted to check out what had been dug up. So I pulled over on the sevice road and hunted for an hour or so.

 

I was walking back to my car with my bag and arms loaded when a Texas state trooper pulled up. I thought I was busted. I had no idea who owned the field, but there weren’t any signs or fencing or anything so I figured it was ok and no one would mind. The piles of rock were just sitting there weathering and growin grass on top of the piles.

The officer came over to me and asked if everything was alright. I told him yes, I was just looking for fossils. He was curious to see what I had found. He said he was glad to know I was ok, because he thought I might be having car trouble. He then got back in his truck and drove away. He was very pleasant and friendly.

Thank goodness I wasn’t in trouble! 

 

I usually hunt in pretty remote remote places. I tend to see more critters than people. Usually the humans I do see are fellow fossil hunters. I like to stop and talk with them. This part of Texas is new to me and I’m still learning a lot. Often they help educate me a little and share info about what can be found in different areas or inform me of things to watch out for. Also seeing what they are finding helps me know what to look for in that area. Once a guy I met in a river gave me his name and number and ask me to call him if I’d like to go hunting. Another time I got asked out! I declined. I’m pretty friendly and laid back, but I am usually taken back a bit when such things happen. I guess some people interpret friendliness as interested. If I were looking for love, romance or a good time I wouldn’t be looking for it in a remote creek. LOL. It still makes me laugh. I just have to walk away chuckling to myself when it happens.

Sure, we women must all be very careful.

[Plax]

On 1/2/2018 at 8:29 AM, PFOOLEY said:

That's a bit unfair...these creatures really want nothing to do with us.  

I agree with most of your list of leave me alone critters. The exception is fire ants. While you may think they don't want to hurt you; disturb them and believe me it is their intent to hurt you. I have had them crawl up my pants a ways before biting. Yes they are only biting you defensively but they certainly do intend to hurt you. They take offense at the merest slight such as walking close to their mound. Nothing worse than an insect with a chip on its shoulder

[FossilDAWG]

1 hour ago, Plax said:

I agree with most of your list of leave me alone critters. The exception is fire ants. While you may think they don't want to hurt you; disturb them and believe me it is their intent to hurt you. I have had them crawl up my pants a ways before biting. Yes they are only biting you defensively but they certainly do intend to hurt you. They take offense at the merest slight such as walking close to their mound. Nothing worse than an insect with a chip on its shoulder

And of course ants can carry chips that equal 10X their body weight (or more), so they can be particularly grouchy!  Also fire ants can secrete an alarm pheromone that attracts others to the battle, so you're rarely dealing with just one.

 

There is a popular myth about fire ants, that they are attracted to electrical currents.  The myth is rooted in a common observation that they can fry outdoor circuit breakers, wells, etc.  Your well will stop pumping, and the repair person will find the electronics have been short-circuited by a mass of electrocuted fire ants.  Several years ago a graduate student showed that the ants aren't really attracted to electric currents.  Rather, a foraging worker will explore the well (it's estimated that every square centimeter of the land surface in the tropics and temperate zones is searched by an ant at least a few times every day) and touch a piece of exposed wire.  The ant is electrocuted, but as it dies it releases a bit of alarm pheromone that attracts other ants to the site.  They too are electrocuted, but in turn they attract yet more ants, and the mass can mess up the electronics that controls the well until everything shorts out.  Even if you know about the problem it can be hard to keep them out, my neighbor has had to have his well re-wired twice due to fire ants.

 

Don

[Heteromorph]

On 1/8/2018 at 2:51 PM, FossilDAWG said:

And of course ants can carry chips that equal 10X their body weight (or more), so they can be particularly grouchy!  Also fire ants can secrete an alarm pheromone that attracts others to the battle, so you're rarely dealing with just one.

 

There is a popular myth about fire ants, that they are attracted to electrical currents.  The myth is rooted in a common observation that they can fry outdoor circuit breakers, wells, etc.  Your well will stop pumping, and the repair person will find the electronics have been short-circuited by a mass of electrocuted fire ants.  Several years ago a graduate student showed that the ants aren't really attracted to electric currents.  Rather, a foraging worker will explore the well (it's estimated that every square centimeter of the land surface in the tropics and temperate zones is searched by an ant at least a few times every day) and touch a piece of exposed wire.  The ant is electrocuted, but as it dies it releases a bit of alarm pheromone that attracts other ants to the site.  They too are electrocuted, but in turn they attract yet more ants, and the mass can mess up the electronics that controls the well until everything shorts out.  Even if you know about the problem it can be hard to keep them out, my neighbor has had to have his well re-wired twice due to fire ants.

 

Don

I have heard that explanation before, but there is one fact that makes me question that it explaines all associations of ants with electronics. My family has a business that involves working with a lot of outdoor electronics. It is a very common thing for our techs to find fire ant mounds right next to outdoor electrical equipment, and this is not just an occasional thing but something that is VERY common. Our techs are commonly getting bit while trying to do their work! If it was just about them getting killed and more ants coming after the faramones are released, would that get to the point of building a mound next to it? Maybe so, but it seems pretty suicidal to me. 

 

In the interest of not taking this topic off course, I will say this. Most of my hunting experiences are away from any other people so I am mostly left to myself, and when I am hunting where other people are around they usually leave me alone. Actually, no one has ever even asked what I am doing! Probably the “worst” I have ever dealt with are a few odd looks here and there or cars slowing down when they drive by me. But if I did run into some curious folks I would just tell them what I am doing and show them my finds for the day, assuming they were not hostile.

[FossilDAWG]

Hi Heteromorph,

 

Fire ants like to set up shop in any disturbed area, and often right next to any object that disrupts the natural state of the ground.  When I am working on my pasture fence, if I leave fence posts (wood or metal T-posts, it doesn't matter) lying on the ground for a couple of days there will be new fire ant mounds amongst them and they will be crawling with ants, guaranteed.  When I put in a new section of fence, it doesn't take long before half the posts have a mound at their base.  I think that's the kind of thing your techs are encountering.

 

BTW I'm an entomologist and I HATE fire ants.  

 

Don

[Doctor Mud]

Lots of interesting accounts here on the people that we meet in the field.

 

I first intended this to be about the weird or awkward encounters that we have had, and how we deal with them. But I like how this thread has developed.

It shows that field"work" (is it really work?) is a mix of experiences involving nature, fossils and people. The people we go with on purpose or accidentally bump into. Sometimes the encounters are awkward or loaded, often they are wonderful. Sometimes all of the above.

 

With the human element, guess it's just like everywhere else, you try and give people the benefit of the doubt while also perhaps being a little weary of protecting your own interests. E.g. not necessarily giving away your special hunting grounds.

 

The site I collect in NZ has been a bit busier over the last few visits. I bumped into a group who were a mix of locals and Canadians. One of the local women had been visiting the site for 20 years and she was amazing to talk to. Wish I had got her contact details as I would have loved to chat more about what she has seen and collected. I learnt a lot from her about the changing nature of the local beaches and what she has found over the years. I had some nice mollusc steinkerns that I often find and I gave these to her Canadian visitors. The Canadians just happened to come from just up the road from where my wife is from.....

 

I also met a newbie on the beach and helped him find some crabs. I remember what it was like when I started looking. I hadn't the faintest idea what I was looking for!

 

[Doctor Mud]

Back on one of my favourite beaches today. Merrily trundling along with a massive concretion on a trolley. As you do!

 

Beautiful sunny day and came across to Belgian guys enjoying the tranquility of this remote beach. Strange looks were followed by an explanation. I told them how they could find their own fossils if they wanted to. Wished them a wonderful stay in NZ.

 

Well I soon discovered Getting this huge concretion up the hill was going to be a challenge even with a trolley. The track is uneven and slippery. Thought if I could get past 20 m of the toughest stuff I could do it. 

 

Felt bad interrupting the Belgian guys serenity, but asked them if they minded helping me past the worst of the track. They were happy to oblige and even helped me all the way to the top!

 

Thanks guys!!! I couldn't have done it without you!

 

 

The fruits of our hard work.

[ynot]

22 hours ago, Doctor Mud said:

The fruits of our hard work.

Looks like a good one!

Got any better pictures and an idea of content for Us?

[Doctor Mud]

3 hours ago, ynot said:

Looks like a good one!

Got any better pictures and an idea of content for Us?

 

Thanks @ynot I completely forgot to mention what is inside.

This is the penguin that was mentioned in another thread. It was still on the beach, but near the high tide mark.

After a few nervous days I went back with some gear kindly loaned by @6ix a trolley and some tie-downs. @6ix couldn't make it as he had work. Thought I could do it myself, but the track is too uneven and slippery. A few photos to follow.

 

 

[Doctor Mud]

 

Concretion finally at home showing bones. This is roughly a quarter of the concretion. I looked for the rest, but judging by the wear on the edges, it has been split for some time. Hopefully there is still enough there to be diagnostic.

[Doctor Mud]

Here is the bone that caught my eye in the field (just above the ruler). This is a humerus. From what I can find online this is about the size of a King Penguin. 

 

[ynot]

Nice.

[fifbrindacier]

Yes, really nice @Doctor Mud.