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Late Carboniferous fish or Tetrapod bit?


fossilized6s

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fossilized6s

Just finished the prep on this guy. When i first found this i thought it was a jaw. Now after it's finished it looks more like a possible pectoral girdle or gill plate/skull element from a lobed finned fish/tetrapod. What do you guys see? I can not find anything like it on thee ol' interwebs.

 

It's late Carboniferous and i have found everything from micro to large fish scales, flora, Orthacanthus teeth and other bone chunks in this same layer.

 

Also there is a neat impression of a Lepidodendron on the underside of this piece. Kinda a nice touch when fish were evolving to walk on land. 

 

And pictures really don't do this thing justice. It's very detailed and three dimensional. 

 

As Found

20181001_212803_1538449996495.thumb.jpg.aeeec02373ceec6d300e6d69a87882d1.jpg

 

After some prep and still thinking 'jaw'

20180930_202030_1538357007132.thumb.jpg.1434d7bb2e0c1e26b19ecf5a0f7a65be.jpg

 

Finished prep. It's not a jaw. Haha

20181001_213223_1538450055987.thumb.jpg.d4813d7d0d0bac41733c48d94bee5c69.jpg

 

20181001_213052_1538450073234.thumb.jpg.8ce8e30a27b6662a89ddd3e4019883eb.jpg

 

20181001_214333_1538450096407.thumb.jpg.c82b2daf28f46ca1ac013cf9b1094cca.jpg

 

Lepidodendron 

20181001_212441_1538450118922.thumb.jpg.9941d22663cc6281abcef78b9a606a40.jpg

 

Any help or direction is much appreicated! 

 

@Fossildude19 @Archie @jdp @Carl any thoughts? 

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Nice, I have no idea what it is, but it looks neat.

:popcorn:

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Fossildude19

Very cool, but I have no idea, either.  :headscratch:

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Are you sure that it is bone?  The structure on the right in the second to last photo looks like a hinge of a clam.  I have seen examples of clams with that dark preservation that looks like bone at first (or second) glance.

 

Don

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Great prep job! Its very similar to skull elements of large lobe fins in the formation I hunt, it does seem pretty chunky for fish though?

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Very interesting. My gut says fish skull bone but I don't know vertebrates well as pieces that far back yet.

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fossilized6s
3 hours ago, FossilDAWG said:

Are you sure that it is bone?  The structure on the right in the second to last photo looks like a hinge of a clam.  I have seen examples of clams with that dark preservation that looks like bone at first (or second) glance.

 

Don

Yes, it's 100% bone. 

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fossilized6s

Thanks guys. I wish @ckmerlin was still around.

 

Looks like i need to take a roadtrip to the Field Museum. 

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fossilized6s

I found something similar in a paper from 1929 Australia. My piece is a shoulder girdle bone (like i had originally thought). The closest species i can see is a Lungfish from the Devonian. 

 

Shoulder-girdle-a-Barwickia-downunda-cleithrum-and-clavicle-MV-P181890-b-Barwickia_Q320.jpg.d0556d3f5778440184914347e3d51b98.jpg

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It's quite the puzzle but it doesn't look like any cleithrum or anocleithrum I've seen from a Carboniferous lungfish. One possibility is that you're looking at an internal surface of a bone from a large coelacanth, or alternately that this is one of a handful of tetrapods. I think it's the latter, but I would need to see the other side as well and get a good sense of the three-dimensionality of the specimen.

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fossilized6s
1 hour ago, jdp said:

It's quite the puzzle but it doesn't look like any cleithrum or anocleithrum I've seen from a Carboniferous lungfish. One possibility is that you're looking at an internal surface of a bone from a large coelacanth, or alternately that this is one of a handful of tetrapods. I think it's the latter, but I would need to see the other side as well and get a good sense of the three-dimensionality of the specimen.

I found the missing link too! Lol

 

Yes, this is definitely the underside of the bone. And honestly, i didn't plan on removing any of these new finds from their matrix. This one especially is very fragile. I felt like a neurosurgeon prepping this one. 

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fossilized6s

Quick update if anyone cares, this look very simular to a unknown fish opercular bone. It's very hard for me to find a species given my limited access to other known fossils. 

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Hi just seen this interesting specimen I think you may have something like a cleithrum or clavicle bone lying ontop of an operculum , the operculum is similar to Rhabdoderma s.p  ones I have although mine are all external surface ones ,  it could be another tetrapod species of course very interesting whatever it turns out to be ,  worthy of further investigation either at your local museum or via email with any experts in your area

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fossilized6s
6 hours ago, ckmerlin said:

Hi just seen this interesting specimen I think you may have something like a cleithrum or clavicle bone lying ontop of an operculum , the operculum is similar to Rhabdoderma s.p  ones I have although mine are all external surface ones ,  it could be another tetrapod species of course very interesting whatever it turns out to be ,  worthy of further investigation either at your local museum or via email with any experts in your area

Thank you for your insight and pointing me in a good direction. 

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