Fossil dragonfly for ID please!!

[Quetzalcoatlus]

This piece is exhibited at Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences and the label only says: Odonata indet. Colorado, USA. But no data about age or formation. I think that it must be related with some Euphaeidae like Litheuphaea that have similarly patterned wings and also comes from Colorado. I need help in put a name to this piece please! Thanks!

[Rockwood]

The rock looks more like that from the Green River formation at Douglas Pass than the younger Florissant beds, if that helps at all.

[Max-fossils]

From my knowledge, insect fossils are very common, and (just like insects nowadays) incredibly diverse. Because of this most fossil insect species haven't been described yet, even though their fossils have been found and are lying in museum collections for ages. So most fossil insects you'll see, anywhere, are either a new (undescribed) species, or simply haven't been IDd yet because of the incredible diversity. Trying to pin a species name to this fossil could be very difficult I'm afraid. Possible, but very difficult. 

[FossilDAWG]

1 hour ago, Max-fossils said:

From my knowledge, insect fossils are very common, and (just like insects nowadays) incredibly diverse. Because of this most fossil insect species haven't been described yet, even though their fossils have been found and are lying in museum collections for ages. So most fossil insects you'll see, anywhere, are either a new (undescribed) species, or simply haven't been IDd yet because of the incredible diversity. Trying to pin a species name to this fossil could be very difficult I'm afraid. Possible, but very difficult. 

I'm curious about the source of your information.  

 

Don

[Max-fossils]

46 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said:

I'm curious about the source of your information.  

 

Don

None to be given. Just a conclusion I'm drawing. There is a current estimate of 6 to 10 million extant insect species on Earth. Now consider the giant amount of species that have lived in the past 400 million years, and we're in the several tens of millions of species, if not a hundred million. 

I've also heard (can't remember where) that insect fossils are relatively common, in certain layers. And because there are so many different species, even in one small environment, it will take scientists years and years to identify at least a good part of all the species present in this environment, and build up a good database of the species present in this layer.

 

 

Now just in the Odonata order, there are about 5'900 species described. And because most of the time there is more than one dragonfly/damselfly species in an environment (I especially suppose there'd be more than one if it was the very rich freshwater environment of the Green River Fm. Lakes and streams is the place where I most often see insects, especially dragon/damselflies), it will be very difficult to limit the possibilities to one or two species. Also, the chance that the fossil in question is a new species is also kinda high. 

 

So considering the vast range of possible species, I suspect that IDing this fossil, with confidence, to a specific species is gonna be incredibly difficult. 

 

Then again, I know absolutely nothing about fossil insects, I've only gotten 4-5 in my collection, so perhaps I am completely wrong. I am just trying to make sense out of the slim knowledge that I do dispose of, and draw logical (to me at least ) conclusions. 

I would still be really impressed if anyone manages to ID this fossil to a specific species!

[FossilDAWG]

Fossil insects occur only in rocks deposited in a specific type of environment, freshwater lakes (or bogs in the case of Carboniferous insects) or in fossilized tree resin (amber).  They are essentially absent from marine or terrestrial formations, which excludes >95% of the fossil bearing formations.  So while they may be relatively frequent in certain formations, those formations constitute a small fraction of the geological record, and overall insects are relatively rare as fossils.  When they occur they tend to attract attention and be well studied, though of course new forms are described frequently.  There are only a couple of insect-bearing formations in Colorado (Florrisant and Green River) and the insect fauna has been extensively studied.

 

Don

[FossilDAWG]

10 hours ago, Quetzalcoatlus said:

This piece is exhibited at Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences and the label only says: Odonata indet. Colorado, USA. But no data about age or formation. I think that it must be related with some Euphaeidae like Litheuphaea that have similarly patterned wings and also comes from Colorado. I need help in put a name to this piece please! Thanks!

@oilshale might be able to help.  If not he has a paleoentomologist friend who worked on a damselfly that was discovered by forum member @FossilDudeCO in the Green River Formation a year ago.  That specimen is being described as a new Family, Genus, and species!

 

Don

[Quetzalcoatlus]

Thanks, then I wait anxiously for the reply of @oilshale ! I highly doubt that mine is a new family as the one discovered by fossilDude, and I strongly suspect that is an Euphaeidae, but I think that at least is not Litheuphaea coloradensis because wing pattern is slightly different, or it seems so.

[piranha]

40 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said:

...If not he has a paleoentomologist friend who worked on a damselfly...

 

 

Günter Bechly

 

[Max-fossils]

1 hour ago, FossilDAWG said:

Fossil insects occur only in rocks deposited in a specific type of environment, freshwater lakes (or bogs in the case of Carboniferous insects) or in fossilized tree resin (amber).  They are essentially absent from marine or terrestrial formations, which excludes >95% of the fossil bearing formations.  So while they may be relatively frequent in certain formations, those formations constitute a small fraction of the geological record, and overall insects are relatively rare as fossils.  When they occur they tend to attract attention and be well studied, though of course new forms are described frequently.  There are only a couple of insect-bearing formations in Colorado (Florrisant and Green River) and the insect fauna has been extensively studied.

 

Don

Well that's where I was wrong then... I knew insect-fossil bearing formations were uncommon, but didn't know they were that rare. 

If the formations really are rare (only two in a whole state), then it does make more sense that these formations are extensively studied. 

Thanks for pointing out my mistake  

[oilshale]

I’ve  forwarded this thread, but so far Guenther Bechly did not answer.