Please Help With My Personal Challenge!

[InfoHungryMom]

HERE’S THE CHALLENGE! 

 

Please assist me by recommending the method you think is best for extricating fossils I know are present in the ocean rocks pictured below to the point of being “identifiable”.  It has been tremendously frustrating for me to share pictures of rocks I know contain fossils, and even more so to be unable to photograph them or “clean them up” to the point where they are CLEAR.

 

The only method of removing rock I have tried so far has been vinegar.  I now have muriatic acid AND a Dremel.  I have never used either before, but I have researched their usage AND “my youngest”, who is a chemistry wiz, will be home,  and he has used both, (but neither on specimens that are this tiny.  For example, #1 is about 1.75” x 1”   OR  4.4 cm x 2.5 cm )

 

For rocks #1 through #8, tell me, based on the rocks, what method you think I should start with/which should be primary, for 1 or ideally for all 8.  (And what kind of rock/mineral you believe it is.)

 

 Thank you!

 

Karen 

 

 

 

 

[Rockwood]

I really think this is too much project for one post. The methods used to extract fossils are quite specific to the type of rock and how the fossil was preserved.

[Kane]

Topic moved to Fossil Preparation.

[Kosmoceras]

I'm not seeing any fossils in these, could you post some close ups of each specimen? No preparation technique will prepare all specimens, and the wrong technique can easy cause damage. Be careful with acid as its use depends on the chemistry of the matrix and fossil.

[Misha]

Most of these rocks looks like they would not contain fossils.

Especially #8 which looks like a piece of quartz.

[RJB]

 Very hard to tell what you really have there? 

 

RB

[InfoHungryMom]

This is almost “a trick”... there are only two rocks where there is any uncertainty. Rock #3 looks like it has claws on it, but they are not.  I am 100% certain with all of the others -  the others have VERY visible fossils in person, but I am unable to photograph them “in the rocks”. 

 

I don’t know if there are any other people on TFF who work with fossils that are this small.  I am about to find out how easy or difficult getting to the fossils in a “micro environment” is!  I consider this a fun challenge.  It is so much so that THEY wanted “to play” with one of the rocks immediately last night at Home Depot!  

 

Rock #1 is so fossiliferous that I am almost afraid it will fall apart when worked on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kane]

USB microscopes are fairly affordable. If you will be working with more microfossil material, it may be a worthwhile - and fairly inexpensive (between $20-$100) - investment. This may help resolve the photography issue, and allow you to present more detailed close-up images that your current setup does not allow. 

[InfoHungryMom]

#2 can clearly be seen (playing with it with vinegar helped.). I am guessing it is either a bamboo like plant, or a piece of bone.

[InfoHungryMom]

3 minutes ago, Kane said:

USB microscopes are fairly affordable. If you will be working with more microfossil material, it may be a worthwhile - and fairly inexpensive (between $20-$100) - investment. This may help resolve the photography issue, and allow you to present more detailed close-up images that your current setup does not allow. 

Yes, but I want “immediate gratification” and I am happy to show you what I see!  The investment is not an issue- just if I even need it with these- they are visible!

[Kane]

Immediate gratification is more the norm for social media, but science takes patience and time, and often the right tools for the job.  

 

Sorry, but I'm not seeing evidence of plant or bone in piece #2.  

[InfoHungryMom]

#3 is a bit of a trick....  any fossils are so microscopic that I probably could not share them.

[KimTexan]

A lot of times the work it takes to remove the fossil from small rocks isn’t even worth it.

Sometimes people just leave them in the rocks and we call them hash plates.

Like this for example, there are fossils there, but it isn’t worth my effort to get them out.

 

Many are crushed and broken.

Fossil prep is often laborious and tedious work, which requires very specialized tools and other equipment.

Generally if you want the fossils in such material it is easier to go back to the same spot and look for better examples of the same thing.

[InfoHungryMom]

I agree Kim, but this IS “my same spot and environment”.... it’s the Atlantic Ocean!  Because of “sand replenishment projects” (and not just here-  HUGE in the Netherlands, ask @Max-fossils  and sadly, to “protect beach coastlines” all over the world).  all kinds of fossils are being dug up and then wash ashore.  Best of all, I am having fun and learning like crazy (I am learning pretty significant things about modern objects, using common terminology.  But don’t worry....    

Shhhh-  

My immediate Family has strong education and experience in every scientific area imaginable, and all will be home by tomorrow.  It’s GREAT to be a mom!. Oh yeah, if they have any plans that include Thanksgiving Dinner, they will HAPPILY oblige my requests...  though honestly, they would anyway.  I am very blessed! 

 

@KimTexan  -These fossils are larger than what your plate shows.  I am planning on buffing my rocks with the polishing Remel or “spritzing with watered down muriatic acid” before submerging anything to reveal them... but not necessarily to remove them.  No guarantees, though.  If we’re having fun, we may “go for the whole enchilada”-  

 

I am hoping to get suggestions on what everyone here suggests I use first, and to see if they have any personal experience doing this with “beach rocks”.

 

I have all of the proper tools and incredibly over-protective “advisors”- my chem wiz is worried about my long term exposure to mercury despite ALL requisite safety gear and more... I teased him- it’s okay for him to work with but not for his mom?

 

@Kane- don’t worry either... my nephew has done significant fossil prep, categorizing, etc. for the Smithsonian, and after his “self-education” (like with @Max-fossils), he is now formally studying paleo marine ecology - the field he hopes to formally pursue.

 

I’m “the weakest link” and happily, rapidly, changing that with your assistance!

 

[Max-fossils]

6 minutes ago, InfoHungryMom said:

(and not just here-  HUGE in the Netherlands, ask @Max-fossils  and sadly, to “protect beach coastlines” all over the world

Why "sadly"? The Zandmotor, which is a beach replenishment (I've told you about it) is actually pretty much positive in all senses.

It's definitely not ugly, because it just looks like all the rest of the coast...

It hasn't destroyed any habitat; on the other hand it has created some new ones. The two big puddles of water in the middle of it are apparently filled with small aquatic life. 

And finally it is a great and highly sustainable way to prevent coast erosion (which kinda destroys habitat, but mostly menaces the Netherlands of flood). 

The Zandmotor has actually been so successful that there are plans to make similar sand engines in Cape Town, Brazil, USA, etc!

So what exactly do you mean by sadly? 

 

 

[KimTexan]

Part of my point is it may be more profitable and a better use of your time and effort to go about seeking better fossil hunting locations where the fossils are of better quality so you don’t have to do so much work. There is a higher likelihood of instant gratification in some fossil hunting locations.

There is a place to find trilobites in Georgia and I’m sure there are a number of other locations and places to find better quality fossils. From what I am seeing even if you prepped these out they still wouldn’t be of the greatest quality. No insult to your fossils intended at all. But after all the ages they have been through the mill.

I don’t live there, but I can provide a couple locations for hunting if you’re interested.

[Walt]

1 hour ago, InfoHungryMom said:

Rock #1 is so fossiliferous that I am almost afraid it will fall apart when worked on.

ummmm.... problem solved??  

Seriously though.

It looks to me like most of those rocks are very hard and it would be impossible to get any fossils out of that matrix in a recognizable condition. 

That said, there are a couple of prep choices you could make that would look very nice.  One is to tumble or otherwise polish the entire rock.  This would highlight the fossils you say are visible on the surface.  The second would be to have the rock cut and polish the halves to highlight whatever you have inside.  

I have said it before and I will say it again, you should hook up with a local rock club.  There are undoubtedly folks there who have face the same predicament as you.  Their expertise would be invaluable.  

 

[InfoHungryMom]

17 minutes ago, Max-fossils said:

Why "sadly"? The Zandmotor, which is a beach replenishment (I've told you about it) is actually pretty much positive in all senses.

It's definitely not ugly, because it just looks like all the rest of the coast...

It hasn't destroyed any habitat; on the other hand it has created some new ones. The two big puddles of water in the middle of it are apparently filled with small aquatic life. 

And finally it is a great and highly sustainable way to prevent coast erosion (which kinda destroys habitat, but mostly menaces the Netherlands of flood). 

The Zandmotor has actually been so successful that there are plans to make similar sand engines in Cape Town, Brazil, USA, etc!

So what exactly do you mean by sadly? 

 

 

Great for fossil hunting and preventing disasters in the Netherlands.  Sadly because it is ruining the fragile, otherwise healthy, ecosystems.  

 

For a real life example- I end-up playing lifeguard at the beach.  The concepts of tides, let alone rip currents, are foreign to them.  Fish (plankton, etc) are swimming where they should, but predators are following them.  Marine mammals are where they shouldn’t be and end-up beached, ingested huge amounts of plastic (no- not just sea turtles with plastic straws up their nostrils). People who swam in the ocean when they were kids don’t understand the waves are breaking where they naturally should, as powerfully as they should, but people feel a sandbar beneath their feet and aren’t prepared ....  it’s a disaster... and I am not a “Green person”.

[InfoHungryMom]

23 minutes ago, Walt said:

ummmm.... problem solved??  

Seriously though.

It looks to me like most of those rocks are very hard and it would be impossible to get any fossils out of that matrix in a recognizable condition. 

That said, there are a couple of prep choices you could make that would look very nice.  One is to tumble or otherwise polish the entire rock.  This would highlight the fossils you say are visible on the surface.  The second would be to have the rock cut and polish the halves to highlight whatever you have inside.  

I have said it before and I will say it again, you should hook up with a local rock club.  There are undoubtedly folks there who have face the same predicament as you.  Their expertise would be invaluable.  

 

Walt, I heard you loud and clear.  I already “started the process”, but life hasn’t allowed me to act yet.

 

Cutting rocks is my next planned action.

 

i have thousands of rocks.... I didn’t consciously realize as I was collecting them that the existence of fossils in them was part of the reason they were unique and interesting!  I stumbled onto this website and was very pleasantly surprised to find “a real place” where people interacted online, and the vast amounts of knowledge they were happy to share with me, “just because”.  Blame it on @Max-fossils-  I had JUST returned from the Netherlands, and he was beyond kind, generous with his time, and he’s BRILLIANT 

[KimTexan]

Sorry if this may not make sense or if it doesn’t apply here. A couple thoughts and info based on experience.

it is pretty much true of every person who begins fossil hunting. They pick up everything in sight that looks like a fossil.

I still do this to some extent, because sometimes while it may look like nothing much, you wash off the dirt and realize it is the best example you’ve found so far. Also if I am hunting in a new formation or a new geological period/era I want to learn all I can about what is found there. So even if it is a pathetic piece I’ll pick it up and learn later it is this genus of x I had never encountered before. I’m a scientist so I was taught to collect as much info as I can, then you sort out what is relevant and what isn’t.

 

As you get more experience you get more discerning and picky or selective about what you like and want to collect.

There is nothing wrong with picking up everything. It’s the natural development every fossil hunter.

I hunt with more experienced people occasionally. They will pick up a whole ammonite, gastropod or urchin and then drop it! I’m like “are they crazy? That’s a good one!” It’s got chips or pits here and there and they are only looking for complete ones in near perfect condition because they’ve got boxes of what they just dropped in their garage.

 

Frequently I begin doing something without thinking it out. Not just fossil related, but many things that take up my time.

In this case I think first you have to ask the question of why would I want to prep out a fossil. Just because there is a fossil isn’t really a good reason.

 

These are question I would ask myself, which I can think of as to why spend time prepping out a specimen. There may be other reasons as well. 

First you may wish to ask: Can better examples be found that would require less work? If so then don’t waste your time prepping.

 

1. Will it be in better shape aesthetically or for scientific use or for display?

 

Here is an example of a nautilus I found. The answer for this would be yes. It would look a lot better without the matrix. I have dozens of cephalopods that need prep like this.

 

2. Will it be more identifiable? If it isn’t even whole enough to be identifiable to begin with, it isn’t worth the effort.

 

Here is an example of a gastropod. I can’t tell what kind it is. If I prepped it the answer to 1 & 2 would be yes for this.

 

And another. The answer for this might be maybe for 1 and 2, but can I find better examples of this that require less work, yes I can.  I might work on it for a bit and decide it isn’t worth my time too, but I learn the matrix some.

 

3. What knowledge would I gain from its prep? 

 

4. Am I skilled enough?

Sometimes I prep junky, poor quality stuff to learn the matrix, how it comes off, how hard it is, what tools and technique are needed and see if my skill can handle it. Also, the matrix and specimen combination is important. An ammonite will have to be approached differently than an echinoid. I find some good fossils and I don’t want to ruin them by jumping is without knowing the matrix or having the skill level and end up ruining a good piece. This is a good example of what not having the skill and experience can do. This is probably the best Coenholectypus castiolli regular urchin I have ever found. The top was completely covered in matrix. I had not worked with the matrix before and I didn’t know the anatomy well of the specimen and I totally ruined it, big time, not just a little, but a lot. This was the first item I prepped from the formation. I gouged it with my Dremel and also left deep scratches.

 

 

A comment on your #4. You say ammonite. You have to find the formation info where it was found to determine what flora and fauna (critters and plants) are found in it. You can save yourself a lot of ID work if you know that kind of stuff up front.

Also, visit a local museum with a fossil collection and it will help considerably. Ask the museum staff question. They are often more than willing to get out of their routine for a few minutes to take a break and help educate someone.

 

 

 

[ynot]

Most of the rocks You pictured look like silicate rocks, and will not be affected by acids.

If they have shell or bone in them it is probably calcite based and would be destroyed by acid.

 

As others have said each type of fossil needs its own type of preparations.

[InfoHungryMom]

I have typed responses twice now and they disappeared before I could even hit “send reply”!

 

Thank you so much for the responses.  

 

I was given great advice by @Kane and @KimTexan about microscopic cameras, specifically by OMAX (my kids picked one out for me...   I think Kane’s recommendation was great- I would love to know about your favorite equipment - especially for “microscopic to very small” specimens now, but that allows me the option of working with large items later

 

OMAX      3.5X-90X 3MP Digital Zoom Trinocualr Stereo Microscope on Boom Stand with 8W Fluorescent Ring Light

 

As for the prep- @ynot and @KimTexan and everyone else who is trying to guide me on prepping properly- thank you, but for now, I am ONLY working with the thousands of ocean/river/sea rocks and shells that I have amassed.  As you may have guessed- I am thrilled to be learning about fossils, but for me, it is as a part of marine ecology, paleo and present, ALMOST ALL OF WHICH I AM FASCINATED BY!  I think it is fascinating that with marine fossils, they seem to often be visible before you have done any prep at all!  

 

This is FUN for me!  My adult kids are sharing their experiences with me, trying to terrify me into safety with muriatic acid, intoduing me to “moles and mohrs and muriatic... oh my!”

 

I don’t know if other active members are as “beach happy” as I am, but discovering now is a continuation of the, “chilling-out” I HAVE TO DO right now in my life.

 

For now, playing with a Remel and acid and other tools/types for the first time, despite working on something that is usually smaller than 4 cubic inches, is a new world- a wonderful way to bond with my family, meet wonderful people like all of you, and (shhhhhhh!) HAVE FUN!  

 

Whether something is a fossil or a fascinating geological creation, it is new and wonderful to me!  

 

So, I am about to break all of the rules-  I drew all over 2 rocks that I find particularly interesting, and after finishing, “making the mirepoix for my cornbread stuffing”, I will be outside, playing with my new toys, excitedly getting your opinions on equipment and ways to tackle silicate rocks (and still have fingers to spare!)

 

BTW, what are those white prints in the last pictures that look like hands?  They are not superficial!

 

HAPPY THANKSGIVING AND THANK YOU ALL’

 

Karen

 

 

 

[JohnBrewer]

On 20/11/2018 at 2:41 PM, KimTexan said:

A lot of times the work it takes to remove the fossil from small rocks isn’t even worth it.

Sometimes people just leave them in the rocks and we call them hash plates.

Like this for example, there are fossils there, but it isn’t worth my effort to get them out.

 

Many are crushed and broken.

Fossil prep is often laborious and tedious work, which requires very specialized tools and other equipment.

Generally if you want the fossils in such material it is easier to go back to the same spot and look for better examples of the same thing.

That’s lovely Kim!

[Bobby Rico]

13 minutes ago, JohnBrewer said:

Sometimes people just leave them in the rocks and we call them hash plates.

Hash plates are among my favourites types fossil. I found a couple of nice ones but your is beautiful find indeed.

[JohnBrewer]

PM me your email @Bobby Rico