Still_human Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 This started bothering me from lack of fossils for sale(and tooth prices when they are), and although this is far from anything scientific or reliable, I feel like I hear about plesiosaur fossil finds significantly more than pliosaurs finds(im not really sure how to begin searching for that kind of compiled info). Is there a reason pliosaurs seem to be so rare? As far as fossils for sale, the only thing I can think of, other than pliosaurs being just plain rare(super rare when compared to the number of plesiosaurs), is that for some reason everyone just mistakes/assumes pliosaur fossils are actually from plesiosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Probably due to a number of reasons. Firstly, the order to which both groups belong is the Plesiosauria, so people will call all of them 'plesiosaurs'. Then the suborders Plesiosauroidea and Pliosauroidea are complicated by the fact that there are short necked plesiosaurs and long necked pliosaurs which just adds to the confusion. The third main lineage, the basal Rhomaleosauridae, are usually just called plesiosaurs. And there do seem to be more families, diversification and species of plesiosauromorphs than pliosauromorphs. So I suggest pliosaurs are rarer fossils, but also will often be sold as plesiosaurs. 11 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 According to Wikipedia, pliosaurs are a suborder of the plesiosaurs. Thus, all fossils unless distinguished as pliosaurs, can be called plesiosaurs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiosaurus 3 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 There are pliosauroid plesiosaurs and plesiosauroid plesiosaurs. However, as aforementioned, both have the long neck and short neck design. If you want to learn about them, I would highly recommend the University Of Alberta online course on ancient marine reptiles. 2 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, WhodamanHD said: highly recommend the University Of Alberta online course on ancient marine reptiles. An excellent, worthy recommendation. You will not regret following it (especially if you can still take the course for free). It's an Internet gift! 2 Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, snolly50 said: An excellent, worthy recommendation. You will not regret following it (especially if you can still take the course for free). It's an Internet gift! Can I take this course for free? This course doesn't have a 7-day full access free trial, but you can audit video lectures and some course content for free. If you want to complete the course and earn a Course Certificate by submitting assignments for a grade, you can upgrade your experience by purchasing the course. You can also apply for financial aid if you cannot afford the course fee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 seems like there are Pliosaurs out there, this was just posted a few hours after your post: Still not 100% sure it is Pliosaur. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, minnbuckeye said: Can I take this course for free? I just don't know. This 7 day trial thing is "new" with Coursera. I have taken ten or so of these offerings and all were free. From The History of Humankind from a university in Israel to a course on diabetes from a California med school a wonderful array was enjoyed. Then I signed up for one (forget what) and I could view the materials, but not take exams or participate fully without paying. Now the 7 day issue has emerged. I suppose it is the evolution of something that started as free and has now morphed into a more commercial endeavor. To my mind it is a shame. Access to free courses from prestigious universities was one of the best uses of the Internet I can imagine (well FF also). Edit: I searched "Coursera free courses" and got a long listing. I explored one as an example and it indicated you could "audit" for free (access to readings and videos). https://www.coursera.org/courses?query=free courses 1 Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 @snolly50, The statement "can I take the course for free" was part of what I copied from the web site, and what followed was their response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, minnbuckeye said: @snolly50, The statement "can I take the course for free" was part of what I copied from the web site, and what followed was their response. LOL, I was too quick to respond. I did not read beyond the initial sentence. I hope that is not a reflection of life decisions I have historically made! Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 First, pliosaurs were large-bodied predators, larger than many other contemporary plesiosaurs, meaning their remains will be more scarce. Second, talking specifically of what is available for sale, pliosaurs went extinct in the Turonian, beginning of late Cretaceous and appeared in the Jurassic and there are just not that many commonly commercially accessible locations in this interval compared to the later Cretaceous (for instance, very common Moroccan Maastricthian Zarafasaura didn't coexist with pliosaurs, pliosaurs are also unknown from Campanian-Maastrichtian US East Coast, etc.). There are some sites that produce commercially available pliosaur fossils, they are just not very common - Turonian Goulmima site in Morocco and some sites in Texas have Brachauchenius, Albian and Cenomanian sands in Russia produce cf. Polyptychodon, many sites in UK have different Jurassic and Early Cretaceous species. 2 The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 Wow, thank you everyone. Lots of good explanations. Just a quick clarification, I do know they are all plesiosaurs, and I'm specifically talking about from the plesiosaur/pliosaur split. Are you guys(that brought that up)thinking a problem is the possible difficulty for people correctly classifying that? That's one of the things I was talking about that i was wondering if it was a possibility. that could be especially possible if a large number of remains found are of just a bone or few, making the individual harder to classify than if skull, hip, or chest bones are part of a large number of finds. I think many pliosaurs have distinct teeth that can be easily distinguished from most plesiosaurs, so as far as what I believe is known, the teeth shouldn't be super hard to tell in many cases. I do know the huge ones would be much less common, but there's still quite a few smaller ones, which SHOULD be fairly common, unless they for some reason done follow the usual size/population ratio, right? I was not aware that they significantly more limited of when and where, than "long necked plesiosaurs". I thought they had very similar situations as the "long necked plesiosaurs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 But that's the problem. Some of the "long necked" ones were pliosaurs and some of the "short necked" ones plesiosaurs. Unless you find something particularly diagnostic, the odd vert or bone is going to be labelled 'plesiosaur', which is correct for the group at large, rather than guessing at pliosaur, which would be quite possibly inaccurate. It's safer and probably plesiosaur gets more searches on the net than pliosaur too! Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 7:33 PM, Tidgy's Dad said: But that's the problem. Some of the "long necked" ones were pliosaurs and some of the "short necked" ones plesiosaurs. Unless you find something particularly diagnostic, the odd vert or bone is going to be labelled 'plesiosaur', which is correct for the group at large, rather than guessing at pliosaur, which would be quite possibly inaccurate. It's safer and probably plesiosaur gets more searches on the net than pliosaur too! That's cool, i didn't know that--I know there are longer necked short-neck pliosaurs, like Dolichorhynchops, but I didn't know there were any that actually compared to even the shorter necked long-neck plesiosaurs, and vice-virsa. What a mess! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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