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PaleoNoel

Whale tooth?

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PaleoNoel

Hey everybody, prepare for a series of ID requests as I've had a number of fossils from my collection piling up on my desk waiting to be posted. 

 

Here's what I believe is an odontocete tooth from the spoil pits across the street from the aurora fossil museum. It appears to be pretty worn and only has a small patch of enamel left on the end. The piece is about 4 cm long from tip to tip.

IMG_3484.thumb.JPG.135b3ba7612a38cbf329a17cfa11d077.JPG

 

IMG_E3481.thumb.JPG.99a8523ab928b38f1b4f5abcf11bc8e4.JPG

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Macrophyseter

I looks awfully similar to a rooted lateroposterior aligator tooth, maybe it could be one?

 

Image result for rooted alligator tooth

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ynot

Looks like a whale tooth to me.

Maybe @Boesse can help.

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PaleoNoel
5 minutes ago, Macrophyseter said:

I looks awfully similar to a rooted lateroposterior aligator tooth, maybe it could be one?

 

 

It definitely could be, but it's hard to tell when it's missing so much of the enamel.

I thought whale tooth because of the ring like markings on the root which I've seen on some people's sperm whale teeth.

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sixgill pete
4 hours ago, PaleoNoel said:

It definitely could be, but it's hard to tell when it's missing so much of the enamel.

I thought whale tooth because of the ring like markings on the root which I've seen on some people's sperm whale teeth.

Can you provide a picture of this as this could help confirm the ID

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PaleoNoel
4 hours ago, sixgill pete said:

Can you provide a picture of this as this could help confirm the ID

I see this feature pretty frequently when I see sperm whale teeth online and was wondering if it was a result of the outer layers on dentin being worn off.

 

here's one that shellseeker poster a while ago

post-2220-0-19814200-1451601658_thumb.jpg

and some more from Brett Breakin' Rocks' gallery.

Whale Tooth 01

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Harry Pristis
7 hours ago, PaleoNoel said:

I see this feature pretty frequently when I see sperm whale teeth online and was wondering if it was a result of the outer layers on dentin being worn off.

 

here's one that shellseeker poster a while ago

and some more from Brett Breakin' Rocks' gallery.

 

 

Yes, this the case.  But it's not dentin that wraps the tooth, it's cementum.

 

 

whale_scaldicetusB.JPG

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PaleoNoel
30 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

Yes, this the case.  But it's not dentin that wraps the tooth, it's cementum.

 

Do you think my fossil is a previously wrapped odontocete tooth?

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Harry Pristis
3 hours ago, PaleoNoel said:

Do you think my fossil is a previously wrapped odontocete tooth?

 

Yes, I do.  The root portion of your tooth appears to me to be too substantial to be 'gator.  The 'gator tooth roots are most often broken off just below the margin of the exposed enamel (the crown) which usually corresponds to near the top of the pulp cavity.

 

 

peace_asstC_fish.JPG

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Rockwood

How do you keep teeth in a jaw ?

Cementum :D

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Shellseeker
13 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

Yes, this the case.  But it's not dentin that wraps the tooth, it's cementum.

 

 

whale_scaldicetusB.JPG

 

So Harry, a Peace River tooth like this one below is Dentine with the telltale banding wrapped in Cementum?  Is the only enamel on whale teeth the caps?

PeaceRiverWhale.JPG.c34c20d95bbd5027020c4f9a81832a2a.JPG

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Harry Pristis
8 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

 

So Harry, a Peace River tooth like this one below is Dentine with the telltale banding wrapped in Cementum?  Is the only enamel on whale teeth the caps?

 

 

As I understand it, credit Boesse, primitive sperm whales like Scaldicetus (my image above) still have enamel crowns.  Less primitive relatives have no enamel -- the core and crown is dentine only.  I think Kogiopsis is one of the latter group.  There is a shroud of cementum in either case.

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abyssunder

91.thumb.jpg.dd37fe37145dd29244c57906d54295cd.jpg92.thumb.jpg.93d3249729985ed047099a799b1bb0d9.jpg93.thumb.jpg.57a8600937f68254cf6abc890a3fecb7.jpg86.thumb.jpg.3b350b4a0839c5b6a2a8a94198a9d8e1.jpg

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Shellseeker
On 1/13/2019 at 9:57 AM, PaleoNoel said:

I see this feature pretty frequently when I see sperm whale teeth online and was wondering if it was a result of the outer layers on dentin being worn off.

 

here's one that shellseeker poster a while ago

post-2220-0-19814200-1451601658_thumb.jpg

and some more from Brett Breakin' Rocks' gallery.

Whale Tooth 01

 

On 1/14/2019 at 3:43 PM, Harry Pristis said:

As I understand it, credit Boesse, primitive sperm whales like Scaldicetus (my image above) still have enamel crowns.  Less primitive relatives have no enamel -- the core and crown is dentine only.  I think Kogiopsis is one of the latter group.  There is a shroud of cementum in either case.

 

I am starting to comprehend some things that I did not quite understand. Here is a Peace River tooth with horizontal banding on the Dentine, so this tooth must be 100% dentine, with all Cementum worn off..  I can not recall ever finding a whale tooth that did NOT have this banding, so I use the banding to recognize whale teeth. ToothCMc.JPG.cd0e7bbfb1b09b2cd3e3899554b0954c.JPG

Harry's Scaldicetus tooth has the banding on its dentine and not on the cementum plus an enamel cap that identifies it as Scaldicetus.

ScaldicetusBanding.JPG.e4fbd239d62e89a320b55ab919276e2f.JPG

 

I appreciated @abyssunder   post and immediately thought about which types I had found in Bone Valley mines or waterways (Kogiopsis and morphotypes 1 & 3, but not sure about morphotype 2).

 

Here is Morphotype #1 from Peace River @digit,

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/64863-peace-river-whale-tooth/

and one from Bone Valley mines or Morphotype #3 also from BV mines:

IMG_0895TwoWhales.jpg.22ca2a590a53d4acf4bdde07a9a32ff4.jpg

 

I really love Whale teeth,  Wish I could identify them in a more concise way. :D:D

 

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digit

I'll add this one that I came across on my very last dive to the Meg Ledges off North Carolina last summer. Identified by @Boesse as a sperm whale something like Kogiopsis.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

P8039900.jpg

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Shellseeker
47 minutes ago, digit said:

I'll add this one that I came across on my very last dive to the Meg Ledges off North Carolina last summer. Identified by @Boesse as a sperm whale something like Kogiopsis.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

Nice tooth, Ken. Agree it has the footprint of Kogiopsis

 

Last March, I got a fantastic deal on BV Phosphate Mine whale teeth.  These two were included.

This is one from my recent post above.  I believe it have an enamel cap (not Kogiopsis) and not the thicker shape of Scaldicetus.. IMG_0875.thumb.jpg.c989474802e6bd756d435218d08866f6.jpg

Here is another. Note the relatively thin Cementum layer. No enamel that I can see and shape implies Kogiopsis

IMG_0938.jpg.8d067c02aa1be772c64bc48915d74134.jpgCrystalizedWhaleRoot.JPG.bd2b35969bd4900d34f1456acd48f615.JPG

 

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