Jdeutsch Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I am trying to find information of how fish populations changed in the central USA/Great Lakes region in the last 100,000 years or so and am drawing blanks When did walleye/ Sander vitreus appear and where did it come from?. The same goes for brook trout/ Salvelinus fontinalis. Are there any good collections of fossils through the various periods of glaciation? Are there any regions where these neogene/quatrenary fish fossils are being uncovered? Where is there a literature on the subject? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The lakes are thought to have formed 32k to 7k years ago. There is probably little fossil evidence all the way back to 100k years ago. Each glaciation probably erased any recent fish fossils. Your best bet it to look at the histories of each fish such as Brook Trout and Walleye. Most likely they lived in the warmer areas to the south in the rivers during the ice ages and moved north when the glacier retreated, See: https://www.britannica.com/place/Great-Lakes 4 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mioplosus_Lover24 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 It used to be thought the Mioplosus was a relative of Sander canadensis, but it is more closely related to sea bass. "Life is too complex for me to wrap my mind around, that's why I have fossils and not pets!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeutsch Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 agree with the comments made However, I can't find much on the evolution of the particular species I noted above. The literature I have come up with suggests that these species may be relatively recent, but I have trouble believing what I've read. There should be some fossil record from south of the glaciation eras. I am finding poorly documented articles that suggest these fish evolved during the times the glaciers retreated. So if anyone has more information or can guide me to some sources, I would appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jdeutsch said: There should be some fossil record from south of the glaciation eras. I would think that any fish that were buried during the last 5 million years, in a manor to become fossils, have not been interned long enough to have been re exposed. Most are probably still having material deposited on them and if exposed are not encased in "rock" but still in sand or clay.\ Also the habitat of many of these fish are not conducive to fossil formation. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/7d435c40-3f9d-422c-a865-df0f30088e09/etd_pdf/8f4de38b9023117992598d94109ddc72/dadswell-distributionecologyandpostglacialdispersal.pdf http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f72-091#.XGrxajNKjIU and particularly: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nicholas_Mandrak/publication/238028010_Postglacial_dispersal_of_freshwater_fishes_in_Ontario/links/555e319d08ae86c06b5f36b4/Postglacial-dispersal-of-freshwater-fishes-in-Ontario.pdf Hopefully these can give some clues to get you started. Don 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Also remember that molecular markers can be as informative, or even more so, than fossils in reconstructing dispersal patterns. For example, regarding brook trout: http://www2.bio.ulaval.ca/louisbernatchez/pdf/(048) Danzmann_CJZ_98.pdf Don 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeutsch Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 Thanks for the information Danzmann in particular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 5:25 PM, Jdeutsch said: I am trying to find information of how fish populations changed in the central USA/Great Lakes region in the last 100,000 years or so and am drawing blanks When did walleye/ Sander vitreus appear and where did it come from?. The same goes for brook trout/ Salvelinus fontinalis. Are there any good collections of fossils through the various periods of glaciation? Are there any regions where these neogene/quatrenary fish fossils are being uncovered? Where is there a literature on the subject? You're not going to find your answers in mainstream publications though you could find something related in a back issue of Natural History magazine. I would searches on Google Scholar for those two genera and species. Even if there isn't an article on the precise subjects, there could be something you want within the discussion section of an article - an aside to a related point being made. Also, make sure you go through the Reference list at the end of the article. There could be something for you. I would also do searches within the journals listed here: https://fisheries.org/books-journals/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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