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Hubbelli or Carcharias? White shark tooth from Sacaco


Macrophyseter

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Recently I aquired this Carcharodon tooth from Sacaco, Peru whose serrate conditions seems a bit peculiar to me. I can't really decide whether or not this tooth is from a late-stage hubbelli or an early carcharias. The serrations seem to wear/taper off just short of the tip on one side and abruptly end near it on another, and some (although not all) of the serrations appears to be angled in a way, although I suspect some may be due to wear. My thoughts on the serrations keep seesawing in my head.

 

Would this tooth better represent a late-stage hubbelli or a carcharias?

 

Thanks for any and all answers.

 

Lingual

IMG_20190523_203235.jpg

If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM!

 

 

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Labial

IMG_20190523_203252.jpg

If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM!

 

 

Mosasaurus_hoffmannii_skull_schematic.png

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If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM!

 

 

Mosasaurus_hoffmannii_skull_schematic.png

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Apologies for the late reply -- I didn't see this until last night.  This is certainly a very nice tooth.  If you find the time, it would be of interest to know the size of the tooth and see a photo including the entire root. 

 

Based on the photos above, it looks like C carcharias to me -- and perhaps 'early carcharias' is not a bad way to view it.  Although the tooth has bite damage that sheared off some serrations on one edge, and light abrasive wear to the remaining serrations, many appear oriented largely perpendicular to the edge, and this orientation seems to become more perpendicular progressing toward the tip.  The apex of the crown appears to have some very slight chipping damage that likely further obscures the previous presence of possible serrations there, but the remaining serrations on the mesial edge appear fairly large virtually all the way to the tip. That's not what I might generally expect to see on C hubbelli.  I agree with your observation that the apparent angle of some serrations may be due to wear, and like this tooth, I also do sometimes see a few angled serrations on 'early' C carcharias at the mesial/distal margins of the crown.  Consistently angled serrations -- often, very minute serrations -- or angled serrations fading out to an unambiguously smooth-edged crown apex are what I'd expect if this tooth were C hubbelli. 

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44 minutes ago, sagacious said:

Apologies for the late reply -- I didn't see this until last night.  This is certainly a very nice tooth.  If you find the time, it would be of interest to know the size of the tooth and see a photo including the entire root. 

 

Based on the photos above, it looks like C carcharias to me -- and perhaps 'early carcharias' is not a bad way to view it.  Although the tooth has bite damage that sheared off some serrations on one edge, and light abrasive wear to the remaining serrations, many appear oriented largely perpendicular to the edge, and this orientation seems to become more perpendicular progressing toward the tip.  The apex of the crown appears to have some very slight chipping damage that likely further obscures the previous presence of possible serrations there, but the remaining serrations on the mesial edge appear fairly large virtually all the way to the tip. That's not what I might generally expect to see on C hubbelli.  I agree with your observation that the apparent angle of some serrations may be due to wear, and like this tooth, I also do sometimes see a few angled serrations on 'early' C carcharias at the mesial/distal margins of the crown.  Consistently angled serrations -- often, very minute serrations -- or angled serrations fading out to an unambiguously smooth-edged crown apex are what I'd expect if this tooth were C hubbelli. 

 

Hi sagacious,

 

Can late/modern juvenile C. carcharias teeth look like this as well? I know young great whites have irregular serrations sometimes.

 

Thanks,

Joseph

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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29 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:

 

Hi sagacious,

 

Can late/modern juvenile C. carcharias teeth look like this as well? I know young great whites have irregular serrations sometimes.

 

Thanks,

Joseph

 

Hi Joseph,

 

Yes, you're spot-on.  Juvenile C carcharias fossil teeth may have reduced or 'wavy-edge' serrations, or incompletely-serrated crown edges, or even be absent serrations -- and especially so on lower teeth.  This can occasionally make it difficult to characterize even 'adolescent-sized' isolated or abraded lower teeth as C carcharias or C hubbelli, since the distinguishing characters may be somewhat ambiguous.  In that case, the provenance of the tooth (geologic formation/level/location/etc) can be helpful in establishing identification. 

 

Regards,

Eric

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/26/2019 at 3:13 PM, sagacious said:

Apologies for the late reply -- I didn't see this until last night.  This is certainly a very nice tooth.  If you find the time, it would be of interest to know the size of the tooth and see a photo including the entire root. 

 

Based on the photos above, it looks like C carcharias to me -- and perhaps 'early carcharias' is not a bad way to view it.  Although the tooth has bite damage that sheared off some serrations on one edge, and light abrasive wear to the remaining serrations, many appear oriented largely perpendicular to the edge, and this orientation seems to become more perpendicular progressing toward the tip.  The apex of the crown appears to have some very slight chipping damage that likely further obscures the previous presence of possible serrations there, but the remaining serrations on the mesial edge appear fairly large virtually all the way to the tip. That's not what I might generally expect to see on C hubbelli.  I agree with your observation that the apparent angle of some serrations may be due to wear, and like this tooth, I also do sometimes see a few angled serrations on 'early' C carcharias at the mesial/distal margins of the crown.  Consistently angled serrations -- often, very minute serrations -- or angled serrations fading out to an unambiguously smooth-edged crown apex are what I'd expect if this tooth were C hubbelli. 

Thanks for the insight. I apologize for the much-later reply, as I have stopped checking for replies after a few days and have only found today that you have already responded months ago.

 

For the sizes and entire root, the tooth is 3.5 cm in slant height.

 

image.png.77d13b6f8e8eea1c3cadbf25427902c9.png

image.png.690f72101da11b66833bcb683b2f13ab.png

 

 

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If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM!

 

 

Mosasaurus_hoffmannii_skull_schematic.png

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