4.5 - 5 Inch Megalodon Tooth On Calcite Matrix

[Fossil_Rocks]

I thought some folks here might like to see this.

The tooth is roughly 4.5 to 5 inches, and from what I know about this specimen, it likely came from a quarry or cave in central Florida.

Given that she's a crossbreed, I sure could use some help with this likely point of origin on this one.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance ...

[calhounensis]

This seems fishy to me, I think this was a very well done fake. Much like the meg teeth in whale vertebrae.

[Fossil_Rocks]

This seems fishy to me, I think this was a very well done fake. Much like the meg teeth in whale vertebrae.

One problem with that theory is that the calcite spray on the front is very fragile.

I've also examined it under high magnification, and I can't see evidence of any glue or anything like that. I don't see any brush marks

I admit I may have to get it GIA certified, but so far most of the opinions I've received based upon the photographs alone, are that it's quite real.

However, without knowing more about the likely origin, it does make it more difficult to argue.

[JohnJ]

I thought some folks here might like to see this.

The tooth is roughly 4.5 to 5 inches, and from what I know about this specimen, it likely came from a quarry or cave in central Florida.

Given that she's a crossbreed, I sure could use some help with this likely point of origin on this one.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance ...

Your photos are fine - without the ebay links I removed.

[Jersey]

I suggest checking it with an ultraviolet light looking for signs of glue.

[Auspex]

I am pondering how that could have happened...and coming up blank.

[Fossil_Rocks]

Your photos are fine - without the ebay links I removed.

That's fine, here are the links to more pics. on MS Onedrive: http://1drv.ms/1mIHU1H

I am pondering how that could have happened...and coming up blank.

Indeed ...

One interesting thing to add, is that while I'm no expert on calcite, I consider myself a pretty good one on megalodon teeth under magnification.

Having said that, I can tell by examining the enamel under magnification that the tooth is real. Also, judging from the looks of the condition of the root and bourlette, it looks like a land found tooth.

It does not appear to have been sand blasted.

I figure the odds of someone using a land find to fake a piece like this, are a bit more remote.

Part of the problem examining for possible glue under basic magnification, is that some forms of calcite can appear like glue. We've all been in caves.

As for the ultraviolet test, I haven't conducted one, and don't have the equipment. I could probably arrange for that with a local jeweler.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Fossil_Rocks

[calhounensis]

My theory is that someone found a really nice tooth that was split down the middle, found a chunk of calcite and saw an opportunity. It's not incredibly hard to grow calcite crystals or reproduce fake ones. Try putting a drop of acid on one of the crystals surrounding the tooth, a real calcite crystal will dissolve. Also, let us know how it looks under UV light. If all else fails, take it to a museum.

[Auspex]

I am open to all ideas about how this specimen could have come to be naturally, and have no trouble suspending my skepticism in that pursuit. It is an extraordinary specimen, and deserves thorough investigation. The real pity is its lack of provenance, because any tentative explanations are thus anecdotal.

[Fossil_Rocks]

My next question would be is, do all forms of calcite fluoresce under UV light?

Does an entire cave fluoresce?

[Auspex]

If this is from a cave, that is incidental to its formation; the matrix is not flowstone. Large calcite crystals like this usually grow in a vug or void.

[Shellseeker]

Curiosity rather than expertise. Am I to assume that the Meg is broken and ends at the surface of the crystal OR is the Meg complete and if the rock were removed, we would see a whole tooth or at least twice as much as we see now?

[Fossil_Rocks]

Again, here are the links to more pics. on MS Onedrive: http://1drv.ms/1mIHU1H

Edited June 29, 2014 by Fossil_Rocks

[Fossil_Rocks]

Curiosity rather than expertise. Am I to assume that the Meg is broken and ends at the surface of the crystal OR is the Meg complete and if the rock were removed, we would see a whole tooth or at least twice as much as we see now?

I'm considering having it scanned with a medical device to tell us more. In the past, a local hospital has done it for free, as it seems to break the boredom of their normal routine.

The matrix is roughly 2.5 inches thick in the center, and the center of the tooth sits about 1.5 inches above the matrix.

Assuming that we're within a half inch of the center dividing line or axis, that would mean we could expect to have approximately 2 inches buried underneath. That would leave plenty of room for a complete tooth to fit inside that piece of matrix.

The tip and the root have similar margins.

[Fossil_Rocks]

I've contacted the people who still own the Ruck's Pit mine down in Florida, to see if they recognize the specimen.

I didn't realize it at the time but when I checked out their website, they have a rock shop. It then dawned on me that maybe this is the place where the seller I purchased from, had traded.

The story on this specimen, is that the Rockshop And dealer I had purchased it from, which is located in Mt. Ida Arkansas, had traded for it from a dealer down in Florida.

They also find fossils in that pit, and some of those are estimated to be several million years old.

If anything, they may be able to give me some good leads. One problem is the email addresses on their website don't seem to be good anymore, but I also left them a voicemail.

Here's the link to their website: http://www.thefortdrumcrystalmine.com/

Edited June 29, 2014 by Fossil_Rocks

[Auspex]

The age of the Ruck's Pit clams and the probable date of C. megalodon's extinction just barely overlap (1.5 and 1.8 MYBP, respectively), so it is at least possible.

[Fossil_Rocks]

The age of the Ruck's Pit clams and the probable date of C. megalodon's extinction just barely overlap (1.5 and 1.8 MYBP, respectively), so it is at least possible.

It looks like they let the mine flood in 2008, according to Wikipedia, but may have moved their rock shop close by.

[Cris]

It also looks a little fishy to me, but if it's real, then it's a very, very cool piece.

[THobern]

The age of the Ruck's Pit clams and the probable date of C. megalodon's extinction just barely overlap (1.5 and 1.8 MYBP, respectively), so it is at least possible.

Whether they overlap isn't too important for determining authenticity. It doesn't necessarily rule anything out if the fossil species is older than the formation (as it could have been redeposited). It would only be conclusive if the formation were older than the fossil species. That said, I make no statement on its genuineness.

[Fossil_Rocks]

It also looks a little fishy to me, but if it's real, then it's a very, very cool piece.

Again, I just always assumed that the calcite spray was too fragile to invent an elaborate hoax, but that was before I considered selling it.

Then I started to think, what if ...

The other specimen that I saw in the case, was a smaller tooth, and not nearly as cool as this one. Of course, now I wish I had purchased it too so that I could compare, but what I clearly recall, is that it was completely covered with calcite. You could barely tell that it was a tooth, except for the shape of it.

It didn't have the white calcite spray, and was a fairly ugly brown. So I passed on it.

So the question then becomes, why create something like that, which wasn't very appealing to the eye, because if the tooth had been more clean, I would have purchased it also.

If it turns out to be a hoax, I didn't go far out on a limb on the price. I went back several months or perhaps even a year so later, to see if the other specimen was still there, but they were out of business, or had moved. I tried to find out where they went, but it was the off season, and most of the shops in Mt. Ida were closed. Then as I thought back, I remembered thinking that they did seem to be liquidating their inventory, so it made more sense that the price would be right.

As for the story that it was traded for quartz, rather than purchased, this also helped explain the lower price I paid. On the other hand, that could have been a ruse to bait me into thinking he either didn't care what he had traded for it, or was willing to cut his losses, not being an easy sale in the quartz capital of North America. You don't find meg. teeth for sale in Mt. Ida, AR, and I know this because nearby Hot Springs is my home town.

He may have had trouble with the "fishy" feeling too, so it just sat there in the case, for who knows how long. Then here I come along, and look at the difficulty of creating a hoax like this; and I'm a meg. collector, so I take the chance, thinking I got the deal on it.

Does it seem like I'm preparing for the worst here?

Edited June 30, 2014 by Fossil_Rocks

[Fossil_Rocks]

I feel like I've just had a talk with The Church Lady from SNL, after talking to Eddie Rucks down in Florida on the phone. He knew the guy I bought this specimen from, and said that there are some elaborate fakes on the market, manufactured in places like India and Morrocco, where time, labor and materials are very cheap.

We've all see the Mosasaur fakes, the Megalodon fakes penetrating bones, but this is quite a bit more elaborate. Far more elaborate than average, but said that the dealer I bought from, was known for improving things, generally, and sending them off overseas, and having them returned much improved, etc.

The problem is, if this is a fake, why are there no other fakes like it, or at least none that I have seen, and I've been collecting megs for a long time. I've also searched for what I have, and can find nothing similar.

Besides educating me on some fraud issues, he said that no white calcite comes from his mine, so that means this specimen didn't come from Rucks Pit.

So the bottom line is .... I need to look for glue, he says.

So I guess a UV test is in my future.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Fossil_Rocks

[Auspex]

I keep hoping it's the real deal, because I have never seen or even heard of its like...which is why my skeptic meter keeps pegging.

Whatever the outcome, learning will have been had!

[Auspex]

Just to create certainty from assumption, maybe some basic mineralogical tests to confirm that it is indeed calcite are in order.

[digit]

Great conversation piece but my Skept-o-meter is pegged at 11 (though this would be spectacular were it found to be real).

I'd first pick up a UV light bulb at a big box home improvement store--not particularly expensive or hard to find. See if a UV scan lights up anything suspicious. My vote would be for a half meg tooth attached to a block of calcite. The two-toned nature of the mineral could be natural but it just seems to me (not having the opportunity to have the specimen in hand) that the more tan material is suspiciously surrounding the "embedded" tooth. If a UV assist does not conclusively show signs of assembly I'm wondering if something like this is too dense to show any detail through medical imaging? If no signs of the mirror half of the tooth can be detected inside the block then I'd say that confirms an intriguing fake.

Even if it comes from less than authentic provenance, I'd still enjoy displaying this ingenious "upgrade" of a fraglodon.

Here is a somewhat related image that is both 100% authentically real and yet completely man-made.

Anybody care to guess where I took this photo?

Cheers.

-Ken

[Coco]

DSC_3896.jpg

Anybody care to guess where I took this photo?

Cheers.

-Ken

In a petrifying fountain ?

Coco