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ID help with tiny Pennsylvanian item


KCMOfossil

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This item is 6.5 x 2.5 mm.  It is from the Middle Creek Member of the Kansas City Group (Pennsylvanian Subsystem) and was found in conjunction with crinoid pieces, brachiopods, bryozoans, and horn coral.  Any ID help will be appreciated.  

 

Russ

 

Front:

594af8198a4fa_Front70.JPG.6678f6a2913b076e437d4f52a4a5cf78.JPG

 

Back:

594af84372b53_back72.JPG.fbeefd0695bc0fbe2ebb43986c680a8c.JPG

 

Back with measurement:

measure.thumb.JPG.925d10fb3d0e17e4203fd2338bd84973.JPG

 

Left side:

594af855909ba_leftside74.JPG.3eb72051c3c6b0dec32df65f648358a4.JPG

 

Right side:

594af873c530b_rightside75.JPG.d37f3bc5c700e5fc8f8528dbfc4c9c1e.JPG

 

Top (tip):

594af8b189931_tiptop76.JPG.0877c46fefbba448b379d57e60e82f6a.JPG

 

Bottom (tip):

594af8b9da6e5_tipbottom77.JPG.362d4a54c5946c90af23507a34d544ca.JPG

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Does anyone ever find bits of shark cartilage there?

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BobWill, I'm not sure if shark cartilage is found there or not.  Perhaps someone else will know.

 

Hank, thanks for the suggestion.  I can see what you mean, especially in the first two pictures where a spiral line is evident.

 

Russ

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Fossildude19
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It looks like an element (part of pyramid?) from an echinoid Aristotle's lantern, maybe Archaeocidaris

 

EDIT: I think it's an epiphysis, see posts further down.

 

 

 

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I don't think it comes from a sea urchin

 

33ll72x.jpg

 

547264LanterneAristote2.jpg

 

Coco

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Here's one from my own collection that looks similar, an Archaeocidaris lantern epiphysis (attached to another bit)  (identified for me by a specialist).

 

 

IMG_1881 (1).jpg

IMG_1881.jpg

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Here's my Archaeocidaris epiphysis image flipped for comparison with Russ's:594b9f71b909f_IMG_1881(1).jpg.7f5f835120837c0369746b2f83530050.jpg594b9faae9105_ScreenShot2017-06-22at11_44_40.png.f6fc584437dd7702a5ef6bcfe1e288d8.png

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Fossildude19

It does look like a close match. :) 

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TqB beat me to it. Here's a lantern epiphysis from Ohio. This is from the publication "Echinoid Remains from the Pennsylvanian Vanport Limetone Ohio".

 

urchin.JPG

urchinepiphyses.JPG

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a very educational thread.!!

 

5tu6hb.jpg

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still from the same article by Markel (maerkel/diacritic-umlaut on the a)the GOM of echinoid dentition:

reec.jpg

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Scarpa:

a96b5f5da5a222353ad70845d7aff62b.jpg

before there were computers and 3d models,there was hands-on analog modelling:

 

e18ddbbc280d29b3ea041b328da1cb8a.jpg

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2 hours ago, TqB said:

Archaeocidaris lantern epiphysis

Thanks.  This looks like a match to me.  The matrix and fauna in your picture are very similar to the Middle Creek, so the context fits well.  

 

Russ

 

 

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9 minutes ago, KCMOfossil said:

Thanks.  This looks like a match to me.  The matrix and fauna in your picture are very similar to the Middle Creek, so the context fits well.  

 

Russ

 

 

 

Good, look out for Archaeocidaris teeth too. :)

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OK, it seems to be from a sea urchin. Is someone could tell me the exact place of this piece in Aristotle's lantern please ? Is it the "r" and "c" part on the right drawing put by Al Dente ?

 

Coco

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30 minutes ago, Coco said:

OK, it seems to be from a sea urchin. Is someone could tell me the exact place of this piece in Aristotle's lantern please ? Is it the "r" and "c" part on the right drawing put by Al Dente ?

 

Coco

 

Hi Coco,

 

It's the "e" in all three drawings, clearest on the left. It attaches around the demi-pyramid and often becomes detached.

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39 minutes ago, Coco said:

the exact place of this piece in Aristotle's lantern

Here is a another helpful explanation and view of the lantern, although an exploded view is needed to really show the epiphysis.

 

Russ

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5 hours ago, TqB said:

Good, look out for Archaeocidaris teeth too.

I certainly will.  I found this picture put up by JohnJ in an earlier thread.  It seems to show the tip of the tooth.  What does the entire tooth look like?

 

post-420-0-03826400-1395183076.jpg

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26 minutes ago, KCMOfossil said:

I certainly will.  I found this picture put up by JohnJ in an earlier thread.  It seems to show the tip of the tooth.  What does the entire tooth look like?

 

 

 

I posted a few on this thread (from the same slab as the epiphysis) - worth looking down to the bottom as a couple of the best specimens are there. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/65304-archaeocidaris-teeth-and-other-bits-uk/#comment-683500

 

(Sorry it's all thumbnails you'll need to click on.)

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31 minutes ago, TqB said:

I posted a few on this thread (from the same slab as the epiphysis) - worth looking down to the bottom as a couple of the best specimens are there. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/65304-archaeocidaris-teeth-and-other-bits-uk/#comment-683500

 

This was just what I needed.  Thanks.  Your images are clear and helpful.  As a matter of fact, based on them I was able to identify a 7 x 3 mm item from the same material as the epiphysis, and unless I am mistaken, it is an Archaeocidaris tooth.

594c2625d1356_tooth1.JPG.4c94cf0d90cfbc07956cdc622bc2eafb.JPG594c263373fdf_tooth2.JPG.b75ff1f286a0ff536b4eada58912622d.JPG

 

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31 minutes ago, KCMOfossil said:

 

This was just what I needed.  Thanks.  Your images are clear and helpful.  As a matter of fact, based on them I was able to identify a 7 x 3 mm item from the same material as the epiphysis, and unless I am mistaken, it is an Archaeocidaris tooth.

 

 

That looks spot on, nice find and photos!

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fifbrindacier

Very interesting thread, i didn't know the Lantern or Aristote could look like that.

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