Miocene_Mason Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Hello every one, recently tooth a trip to brownies beach (Miocene,Calvert fm, zone 4?) and a found this mammal tooth, it’s worn and is missing a root. Is it possible to get an ID on this? I was told peccary molars are among the more common mammal teeth there, but it’s not as wide as I would expect. It looks shrew or bat like to me. Of course I will now call @Harry Pristis to help. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Size? Looks to big for either shew or bat. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, ynot said: Size? Looks to big for either shew or bat. Sorry, I’ll get exact measurements tommorow but it’s a little under half a cm on the chewing surface, and the root is a little under a cm. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Length and width of the crown are the important measurements. The crucial occlusal view in this series of images is not bright enough for an ID. I suggest that you place the tooth on an overturned water tumbler of colorless glass (or plastic) to dissipate shadows. Use two light sources, at least, one to illuminate the occlusal surface. Stabilize the camera on a tripod or a substitute for a tripod like a stack of books. Simple techniques like these will make a difference. 4 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 12:14 PM, Harry Pristis said: Length and width of the crown are the important measurements. The crucial occlusal view in this series of images is not bright enough for an ID. I suggest that you place the tooth on an overturned water tumbler of colorless glass (or plastic) to dissipate shadows. Use two light sources, at least, one to illuminate the occlusal surface. Stabilize the camera on a tripod or a substitute for a tripod like a stack of books. Simple techniques like these will make a difference. Are these pictures good enough? I’ll get some measurements in a second. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Magnification for those like me with weak eyes. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 These last set of images is what is needed to ID this thing, but in focus. I am leaning towards lower molar (that part is for sure) of an opposum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Shellseeker said: Magnification for those like me with weak eyes. Thank you! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 56 minutes ago, jpc said: These last set of images is what is needed to ID this thing, but in focus. I am leaning towards lower molar (that part is for sure) of an opposum. Okay, I’ll try again. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Measurement in cm of course. Hope these are enough! Thanks to everyone here! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 My first thought was otter lower. For comparison: 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 @Harry Pristis @jpc i, not very good at this yet, and the tooth may be worn to be sure, but I feel like it’s closer to opossum than otter (strange how similar their teeth are given how far apart they are ecologically and evolutionarily). I would love to hear evidence to support either way though! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The otter's big lower molar has carnassial notches. This is seen in almost all carnivores (taxonomic carnivores rather than ecological carnivores). The opossum doesn't. I don;t think your tooth has a carnassial notch, so I will stick to opossum. I have taken the liberty of highlighting the carnassial notches on Harry's photo. You can see it really well under the right green arrow; it is the gap between the two cusps on the face of the tooth closest to us. (As usual, beautiful picture & great fossil, Harry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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