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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Dear Guys,

 

Today I found one interesting fish scale that is 3 mm length and small tetrapod bone (3,5 mm length in flintstone erratic. 

I think the fish scale is quite specific to assign it to one taxon but I have doubt if the bone is from shoulder or maybe pelvic girdle? :)

Please comment if you can, any help will be appreciated! :D 

 

Best Regards

Domas

unidentified bone.jpg

unidentified fish scale.jpg

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Talking about tetrapod bone I would think it is toad (fam. Bufonidae) scapula, I found the pectoral girdle reconstruction of toad in the google views and share the link with you. 

Toads live from Paleocene to recent (about 57 million years) as it is shown on Wikipedia article about Bufonidae. 

Please look at the links and tell if you agree or have another idea. :)

1. Toad pectoral girdle (see scapula):

http://www.biologydiscussion.com/toad/skeleton/toads-skeleton-axial-and-appendicular-zoology/49291

2. Andean Toad pectoral bones and cartilages:

Vaizdo rezultatas pagal užklausą „toad pectoral girdle“ 

 

2. Toad temporal range (Wikipedia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_toad

Please look ant tell what do you think. :)

Regards 

    

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Hi!

 

I may be wrong, but the second picture (which is a little blurry btw, maybe take some better ones of it...) looks like it could be a bivalve. And a cool one too btw!

 

Max

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fossilized6s
5 minutes ago, Max-fossils said:

Hi!

 

I may be wrong, but the second picture (which is a little blurry btw, maybe take some better ones of it...) looks like it could be a bivalve. And a cool one too btw!

 

Max

I agree. Looks more like a bivalve to me as well. 

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I'm in the same camp. I think it could be something like Neithea, but only one angle of the specimen is not enough for the ID.

5a4f5e08b25a0_unidentifiedfishscale.jpg.8a8f36a52f4f98d73700052fd4d12b07.jpg.2b515a86e51f7830454a61032c2ff5fd.jpg

 

 

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I'm not sure if it's a bivalve or a scale, but these features crossing the ribs would be somewhat unusual for a bivalve and somewhat more likely in a scale.  Some more and better pics, including some with oblique lighting would help.  Among other things, is that "umbo" area flat or inflated?

20180105_181405.jpg.6c60c1ca6e8431df71899132e536b047.jpg

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Good po(i)nts Peat. For the circled in red area (I remarked that initially) I thought could be growth lines of what ever can be, but the problem is that the lines are at approx 45 degrees deviated from the growth lines. Also, in what you said "Among other things, is that "umbo" area flat or inflated? ", is a good question. :)

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5a4f5e08b25a0_unidentifiedfishscale.jpg.8a8f36a52f4f98d73700052fd4d12b07.jpg.7ee5b2eb28e4282a1eb39dac37282709.jpg

In a closer look of what we have now, the "ribs" are undulating, curved, branching. I'm wondering if the region cannot be a bryozoan encrustation feature. High res images are needed for a better understanding.

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

Hello Guys,

Thank you for the interesting notes! 

I looked at the scale specimen by my binocular and what I can say- this scale, although it looks angled or protuberant, is flat and very thin. :) 

I see the growth lines with almost the same orientation in the scale corners like this one you talked about. The spine like area has not any ctenini but it is smooth in the lower scale corner and also in the both lateral edges not far from the lower point of a scale. The majority of scvale surface have quite thick growth lines.

I also have the other half of stone with the same scale, there is visible almost complete scale material that is brown in color! 

Quite many people could think that it is incomplete but judging by what features I see I would think it is specific complete scale from primitive teleost that could live in Late Cretaceous. :)

Talking about better pictures- I have cheap electric microscope and it is quite hard to get good close up of all surface with growth lines, I do not know how to make the oblique lighting in my microscope. And the scale is only 3 mm length...

But I told you all the main features of my find that are visible by binocular, please tell the teleost order or family with the same or very similar scales if you know. :)

 

Regards

Domas

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I'm wondering if can't be fish otolith rather than fish scale.

 

5a4f5e08b25a0_unidentifiedfishscale.jpg.8a8f36a52f4f98d73700052fd4d12b07.jpg.2b515a86e51f7830454a61032c2ff5fd.jpg.8e070d12bc4c039934702d3ed3d244dc.jpgOtoliths2B.gif.0bd9771b79d4cbf20a9cd0116ffbb2cb.gif

 

comparative image from here

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I have never seen an otolith like that, interesting !

 

Have a look on my signature.

 

Coco

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D.N.FossilmanLithuania

abyssunder yes, otolith looks quite similar but my scale has much thicker circuli so I think it should be more scale like remain. :)

I think it should be not a modern like scale but only primitive teleost (maybe Jurassic or Cretaceous in age), modern fish scales maybe do not have this shape.

 

Best Regards

Domas 

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