TheRocksWillShoutHisGlory Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Taking another look at an Annularia (I believe sphenophylloides?) I saw a curious pattern in the corner and I was looking for some help identifying it. I was thinking it could possibly be Artisia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Cropped and enlarged: Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 It doesn't strike me as being quite right. The association doesn't really preclude the ID, but I think it makes it less likely given that the morphology is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 My suggestion for an alternative would be external mold of a slightly eroded, but relatively large piece of calamites trunk. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, TheRocksWillShoutHisGlory said: Taking another look at an Annularia (I believe sphenophylloides?) I saw a curious pattern in the corner and I was looking for some help identifying it. I was thinking it could possibly be Artisia? Okay, I'm sure @Rockwood will help me get on the right track here...but are the leaves to the right area what you are calling Annularia? If yes, I have only seen ones that more 'spoke-like' like these Although it does look somewhat pithy like artisia, which I thought was associated to Cordaitaleans, I also am leaning in the direction as Rockwood in that it may be calamite. I have some similar looking worn pieces in a box somewhere. Insufficient level of preservation to be certain, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 It's possible that they are sphenophyllum. I think a species of annularia with broader leaves is more likely though. If we could see a larger file it may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rockwood said: It's possible that they are sphenophyllum. I think a species of annularia with broader leaves is more likely though. If we could see a larger file it may help. I don't know if it is my vision or some of the photos I am looking at that are bit out of focus. Indoor lighting, in particular, seems to make specimen photos harder for me to discern features. I have a bit of macular degeneration starting up and that is not helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I'm leaning towards Sphenophylloides. It seems to truncate rather too abruptly to be Annularia. Let's ask Ralph @Nimravis for his input. EDIT: I meant Sphenophyllum but typed Sphenophylloides. I'm losing it. 1 Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Mark Kmiecik said: I'm leaning towards Sphenophylloides. Just came upon this. tff link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Just came upon this. tff link I meant Sphenophyllum not Sphenophylloides. I think I'm losing it. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said: I think I'm losing it. Looks like gain to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said: I'm leaning towards Sphenophylloides. It seems to truncate rather too abruptly to be Annularia. Let's ask Ralph @Nimravis for his input. EDIT: I meant Sphenophyllum but typed Sphenophylloides. I'm losing it. The preservation on this piece is hard to tell- some sections look like an Annularia and some Sphenophyllum. Sorry for the lack of ID on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deutscheben Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 I believe that Annularia sphenophylloides is the correct ID for the leaves here. I don't know if the picture is clear enough to identify the other pattern unfortunately. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 hours ago, deutscheben said: I believe that Annularia sphenophylloides is the correct ID for the leaves here. +1 Regarding the original question, it is difficult to judge whether the highlighted, ribbed fragment on the photographs is Artisia. Could be, though. 4 Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 20 hours ago, Nimravis said: The preservation on this piece is hard to tell- some sections look like an Annularia and some Sphenophyllum. Sorry for the lack of ID on this one. I've seen specimens that have both in the same concretion. That's a possibility that can't be discarded with MC specimens. Unfortunately, identification and assumption by association is pointless with MC material. 1 Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 12 hours ago, paleoflor said: +1 Regarding the original question, it is difficult to judge whether the highlighted, ribbed fragment on the photographs is Artisia. Could be, though. I agree! 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 23 hours ago, paleoflor said: Regarding the original question, it is difficult to judge whether the highlighted, ribbed fragment on the photographs is Artisia. Could be, though. This has been bugging me. Could it be seen as a transverse section of a cordiates trunk with the center of the pith to the lower left ? Indeed Artisia but not the most recognizable view which would show the spreading in the pith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Rockwood said: This has been bugging me. Could it be seen as a transverse section of a cordiates trunk with the center of the pith to the lower left ? Indeed Artisia but not the most recognizable view which would show the spreading in the pith. @Rockwood I'll confess to feeling too lazy to go down to my barn to find some worn calamites...so I found this online. To me one section of this calamite (orange box) could as easily be what is seen smeared in the specimen submitted for discussion. Not that it couldn't be from a cordaite.... My brain is still stuck on associating more strongly to it being a Calamite section due to the leaves of Annularia sphenophylloides 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Calamites would feel at home on the edge of a high ground stand of cordiates that was suffering due to flooding conditions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 28 minutes ago, Rockwood said: Calamites would feel at home on the edge of a high ground stand of cordiates that was suffering due to flooding conditions. @Rockwood I am onboard with your thinking, having found a wide area (a band of shales about 2 feet thick and half mile wide) where it transitions from predominantly fern fossils, to a mix of ferns and cordaites, cordaites and calamites, calamites and lycopsids. It was a wild time and a crazy mix of plants so anything is possible. Pictorially, this was what I had in mind. Figuring the specimen under discussion something like the area in the orange box, just capturing a part of the calamite itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I would be curious to see if more of it can be exposed by carefully chipping some of the matrix away from this corner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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