Another Spinosaurus Claw, fake or real, Please

[Cris Tang]

Good afternoon.

May I know the claw of fossil is real or not, please?

Thank you.

[Huntonia]

This is really not my area but that claw looks very fishy to me. I would guess it is at least very heavily restored, the shaping and coloration looks very inconsistent all the way through. The digits I can't say much about but they look weird to me too, not sure if they're real or if they even come from a spino at all but they have a disproportionate 'bad composite' type vibe to me. The claw especially feels like it really just doesn't fit in the line up. All in all I would definitely pass on this one, however you should wait for more opinions.

@Troodon @LordTrilobite @dinosaur man

[Pterygotus]

I agree, stay away.

[LordTrilobite]

Ugh, this is horrible.

A really bad composite of pieces of bones, most parts look to be carved.

Only the second toe bone looks like it has at least part of a real toe bone. The other toe bones and claw are complete garbage.

 

Yeah, stay away.

 

To go more in depth on what looks wrong so everyone knows what to look for:

See hoe that second toe bone has a nice indent on the side? That's typical of theropods. The other toe bones don't seem to have that at all and the shape looks crude. Some of the bones seem to have been carved out of bone that is local, so the colour is mostly correct, which makes them look more authentic. But since they are crudely carved the shape is all wrong. Especially on the claw we can see several placed where the colours don't match, with rough areas in between. This is typical for random pieces of bone being glued together with local sand mixed with glue being pasted together. Though keep in mind that authentic fossils can also often have many different colours on the same bone.

 

Notice how the curve of the claw is not a smooth curve. There are bumps and changes in the angles. Again, this is typical of pieces of bone that don't belong together. And one of the big giveaways is that the angle of the bone fibres don't match. Bone always has a direction in which is grows. So on a claw, it will grow in a curve, and fibres will follow that curve. What we see here on this claw is that there are some straight lines/fibres on some parts. So that means a straight bone has been used, carved into a curve and glued on. The general shape may look like it's part of the claw, but the fibres don't match the curve at all. Some parts of the shape also look kinda crude and like they've been altered with tools.

[Cris Tang]

Thank you

Edited March 17, 2020 by Cris Tang

[Cris Tang]

1 hour ago, LordTrilobite said:

Ugh, this is horrible.

A really bad composite of pieces of bones, most parts look to be carved.

Only the second toe bone looks like it has at least part of a real toe bone. The other toe bones and claw are complete garbage.

 

Yeah, stay away.

 

To go more in depth on what looks wrong so everyone knows what to look for:

See hoe that second toe bone has a nice indent on the side? That's typical of theropods. The other toe bones don't seem to have that at all and the shape looks crude. Some of the bones seem to have been carved out of bone that is local, so the colour is mostly correct, which makes them look more authentic. But since they are crudely carved the shape is all wrong. Especially on the claw we can see several placed where the colours don't match, with rough areas in between. This is typical for random pieces of bone being glued together with local sand mixed with glue being pasted together. Though keep in mind that authentic fossils can also often have many different colours on the same bone.

 

Notice how the curve of the claw is not a smooth curve. There are bumps and changes in the angles. Again, this is typical of pieces of bone that don't belong together. And one of the big giveaways is that the angle of the bone fibres don't match. Bone always has a direction in which is grows. So on a claw, it will grow in a curve, and fibres will follow that curve. What we see here on this claw is that there are some straight lines/fibres on some parts. So that means a straight bone has been used, carved into a curve and glued on. The general shape may look like it's part of the claw, but the fibres don't match the curve at all. Some parts of the shape also look kinda crude and like they've been altered with tools.

WOW! Thank you very much. Your explanation is so detail. I know it's fake now. Thank you for your help. 

May I know this spinosaurus toe bone is real or not, please?

 

Because the color is so different with the other spinosaurus toe bone. Thank you.

[LordTrilobite]

38 minutes ago, Cris Tang said:

WOW! Thank you very much. Your explanation is so detail. I know it's fake now. Thank you for your help. 

May I know this spinosaurus toe bone is real or not, please?

 

Because the color is so different with the other spinosaurus toe bone. Thank you.

This is definitely a real toe bone. Off the top of my head I don't know if it's Spinosaurid though. But it does indeed look like a theropod toe.

Again, notice the little indents on the sides towards the front, typical of theropods. There is no evidence of any glueing here. The middle part looks the best, it's smooth and still has the original bone surface. The front and back areas have been eroded a bit and show a bit more of the spongy bone from the inside.

Don't put too much stock in the colour on it's own. Fossils from the Kem Kem beds can have wildly different colours even on the same bone. They can range from white, beige, orange, grey, rust brown, deep redish brown and even greyish purple. The bones are originally white. The purple and grey mostly comes from clays. The red and browns come from the amount of iron.

[Troodon]

Agree with the others.  The claw is a composite with fabrications.  Two of the bones with the claw are hand carpals, might be Spinosaurid, excluding the center one which is a toe bone, might not be dinosaurian.

The new bone is definitely a theropod bone.   Identification of isolated toe bones is very difficult since so little is published and how  similar they ars to each other.   Unfortunately sellers identify most bones as Spinosaurus with no scientific basis just because they sell better.   These bones are nice but best identified as "Theropod indet."

 

[dinosaur man]

Agreed with everyone else the top is definitely a fake made out of other bone pieces, you can tell by just looking at the holes and mix of colours in it. And the second is an isolated Theropod bone, but because there’s not much information on Kem Kem material it’s best like Troodon said, to label it as Theropod indet.

[Cris Tang]

6 hours ago, Troodon said:

Agree with the others.  The claw is a composite with fabrications.  Two of the bones with the claw are hand carpals, might be Spinosaurid, excluding the center one which is a toe bone, might not be dinosaurian.

The new bone is definitely a theropod bone.   Identification of isolated toe bones is very difficult since so little is published and how  similar they ars to each other.   Unfortunately sellers identify most bones as Spinosaurus with no scientific basis just because they sell better.   These bones are nice but best identified as "Theropod indet."

 

I see. Thank you for your professional analysis. And I have one more bone to ask. Is this only identify as a theropod bone only? Please take a look for the pictures. Thank you

[Troodon]

Its real, nice and its size indicates it comes from a large theropod.  It appears to have some affinities to this reconstruction of a Spinosaurid foot and MIGHT be one but without a published description I cannot unambiguously confirm its one.  Again best described as a phalanx of an  indeterminate theropod.

[Cris Tang]

6 hours ago, Troodon said:

Its real, nice and its size indicates it comes from a large theropod.  It appears to have some affinities to this reconstruction of a Spinosaurid foot and MIGHT be one but without a published description I cannot unambiguously confirm its one.  Again best described as a phalanx of an  indeterminate theropod.

Thank you for your knowledge again. Here is a good place to save the money of new guys like me.