What do all these layers mean?

[Daleksec]

Stratigraphy is hard to understand at first. but when you get the idea you can become a pro at it. On rivers you can see the transition through time alot easier I always think about the stratigraphy as a hill on on the top of the hill everything is uplifted meaning all your Paleozoic rocks in Virginia this (would be the mountains) going down towards the ocean (which is the bottom of the hill) you start to see the Mesozoic formations and then the Cenozoic formations then you are at the modern ocean (bottom of the hill). that give you the basis for the ages and how they are at in Virginia. now sea levels were different  all through out geologic times.  now formations Say your in the Miocene  you are either (early middle to late that is how they divide time periods). you are in the Eastover formation which is late Miocene in the time scale for Virginia that formation can be divided even further which gives you  (members) of a formation (the Eastover has 2: Claremont manor and Cobham bay) different environments give you different fossils and sediment. given sea level and climate which gives you members but are all similar in some way to be the same formation. in Virginia you have 4 Miocene formations Calvert, Choptank, St Marys,and  Eastover all different time periods in the Miocene and all can be divided even more untill you can't.  formations are stacked on top of each other because the ocean was at the same place only in a different time. now the hill idea  determines were the ages are located Virginia which the hill idea is a rough but it helps me.

[olddude]

8 hours ago, Daleksec said:

Stratigraphy is hard to understand at first. but when you get the idea you can become a pro at it. On rivers you can see the transition through time alot easier I always think about the stratigraphy as a hill on on the top of the hill everything is uplifted meaning all your Paleozoic rocks in Virginia this (would be the mountains) going down towards the ocean (which is the bottom of the hill) you start to see the Mesozoic formations and then the Cenozoic formations then you are at the modern ocean (bottom of the hill). that give you the basis for the ages and how they are at in Virginia. now sea levels were different  all through out geologic times.  now formations Say your in the Miocene  you are either (early middle to late that is how they divide time periods). you are in the Eastover formation which is late Miocene in the time scale for Virginia that formation can be divided even further which gives you  (members) of a formation (the Eastover has 2: Claremont manor and Cobham bay) different environments give you different fossils and sediment. given sea level and climate which gives you members but are all similar in some way to be the same formation. in Virginia you have 4 Miocene formations Calvert, Choptank, St Marys,and  Eastover all different time periods in the Miocene and all can be divided even more untill you can't.  formations are stacked on top of each other because the ocean was at the same place only in a different time. now the hill idea  determines were the ages are located Virginia which the hill idea is a rough but it helps me.

Thanks! I guess that it is so many different material types here that are all mixed together it's hard to figure what is what. We had a good rain over the past couple days so I went back yesterday and made my rounds. I went to the longest running stream all the way in and there was new section of bank that had fallen in. It was a pretty good chunk of material I'd say about two tons at the very least. This is pretty hard material and is full of all different types of shell material. The section that is now exposed is at least 8' high as it disappears up under the tree roots. There are corals, Chesapektens of a couple different varieties, I found a large complete Tree Oyster hanging out the bank and as I pecked it free the dang thing got loose and fell in the water and mud and I couldn't find it. I've been wanting to find one in good shape but I'll have to keep looking. 

 

This material is light grey in color not as dark as the other material I have been seeing. I guess that could be because it has been covered up and not exposed to the elements for the past few million years or so. It was getting late and the light was not the best but I did get a couple pics and a few of the things I found yesterday. All of these things were found in one of the other creeks that are on the site. Look at pic, 7,8, and 10 and tell me if you see anything worth hauling off the hill. 

[Monica]

I just wanted to say that I love your double-valved bivalve - what a beauty! 

[olddude]

4 hours ago, Monica said:

I just wanted to say that I love your double-valved bivalve - what a beauty! 

Thanks! I have recovered several like this one over the past several weeks. Single valves are all over the place and it is something special to recover one whole like that. I'm still kicking myself for letting that big Tree Oyster slip from my hands and fall into the mud the other day. I have also been finding a few complete Chesapekten varieties too and I hope to be able to figure out exactly what they are. As the old saying goes, "They all look the same to me."

[olddude]

Any ideas on what these are? I've found several of these odd shaped rocks at different spots that I hunt. This one was found where I am hunting now. I was thinking at first they may have been something the Indian were making but looking at them closely there are no signs that they were man made. If I had found just one I might say that it was just a fluke of nature but as I said I have found several at different sites.

[Darbi]

@olddude, I don't think so. I do not see any workmanship, especially the fluting.

[olddude]

13 hours ago, Darbi said:

@olddude, I don't think so. I do not see any workmanship, especially the fluting.

Me either which leads to the question, is this an odd shaped rock or some kind of fossil?

[Darbi]

1 hour ago, olddude said:

Me either which leads to the question, is this an odd shaped rock or some kind of fossil?

I don't see any indication of fossil, so I would go with an odd-shaped rock.

[olddude]

On 4/22/2020 at 1:40 PM, Darbi said:

I don't see any indication of fossil, so I would go with an odd-shaped rock.

Just seemed kind of strange to find several like this from a couple different places.

[olddude]

Not sure if I should start a new post with this so if I should someone please make recommendations.Thanks

 

This past weekend we went out on the river to search for arrowheads. That's what my buddy likes to do and I haven't been able to get him all that interested in fossil hunting. Since he has the boat I guess I just have to patient and wait for the day he see's the light. That don't mean I have to stop trying though. I'm always trying to get him to look for new spots to try so as we were going by this one bank that I thought should be holding some fossil materiall I tapped him on the shoulder, crossed my finger cause I knew I was going to have to tell a small white lie and commenced to tell him that another buddy of mine told me he had found some pretty nice points on that stretch of beach over there. He kept going like I knew he would but I kept after him, saying come on let's take a look cause the tide isn't going to be right at the spot we were headed to for at least an hour or two let's give it a try an after a little more nagging he finally turned around and headed for the spot I was dying to try.

 

The bank did have some nice big rocks and there were some chips and flakes laying around at least enough to keep him interested for at least a little while. I headed off one way and he the other and as soon as I put my foot on the beach I noticed some nice shells that I had not seen in the place I have been hunting. I collected a few and I had not gone far before I found a few shark teeth then farther up on the bank I saw what I though was a bone of some sort sticking out of the sand. I went over and sure enough it was a nice piece or bone that I have no clue what donated it. I found a couple more shark teeth and after a ways I started seeing bone pieces and vertebra scattered all over the place. As I was pulling one piece of vertebra out of the sand I happened to look over toward the side of the bank and I say what looked like some sort of bone in the side of the bank. This bank is heavy with vegetation and is an area where a lot of drift wood floats in and piles up along the shore, so not only was the vegetation covering this spot it has a huge amount of wood and trash piled up also on top of this area. I went over and the closer I got the more bone I was seeing laying just under the sand. When I got up next to the piece I saw in the bank, I cleaned away a little junk from the bone sticking out and I could see that it was not just one little piece of bone I saw but there was what looks to be a whole whale/animal of some kind that is still in the bank. 

 

By this time my buddy was yelling lets go there are no arrowheads to speak of here and I don't want to miss the tide in those other spots. I started to tell him to go on and pick me up on his way back but I just marked the spot and I did have enough time to get a couple pics of the vertebra in the bank. What ever this is, is well over 30 to 40 feet maybe longer and from what I could tell  the vertebra has to be at least 10" wide maybe more. I didn't mess with it anymore cause he was making such a fuss but I did cover it back up the best I could and said my good by's and uttered, I'll be back!

 

I was wondering what the best way would be to go about saving this piece of history. I know I would need to get permission from the land owner if I could find him but this seems like it would take quite and undertaking to recover and tag all this material. Just wondering is all..........

 

I don't think the bone in the last three pics belongs to the animal in the bank I found it on another part of the beach. Also I know the pics are not that good to be able to tell much because it was cloudy and rainy that day and it was not very good light back where the vertebra was. Also I didn't want to uncover any more than I had to at the time. This is on the James river not to far from Hopewell. 

[Daleksec]

Technically you need land owner permission to collect any fossils any where in Virginia unless you are on state/public property. but really most people don't really care unless you are purposely excavating it for fossils.  Its a fine line; but the way I think of it if you can get the landowner permission get it. but don't purposely dig for a fossils unless you see it exposed.  be respectful to peoples property and they should not have any problems with it. I'm curious what dose the sand look like that you found that leg bone it looks Pleistocene. if it is coming out of the bank then you might have found a significant site if it turns out to be Pleistocene bone.

[Daleksec]

Oh an if forgot to mention the bone you found is a leg bone from most likely a bovine (Buffalo or cow). depending on the age of the sediment were it was found.

[Searcher78]

Since it has an groove running down the bone, does that mean buffalo?

[olddude]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:08 AM, Daleksec said:

Oh an if forgot to mention the bone you found is a leg bone from most likely a bovine (Buffalo or cow). depending on the age of the sediment were it was found.

Yes I posted it over on the ID section and they put me on the right track with it being modern rather than something that could be much older. After thinking about it I now remember there being cows on this farm years ago. 

 

This bone didn't come from the same place where that layer of vertebra is lying that is a couple miles up river from this spot. Hopefully I'll be able to get back there soon so I can take a closer look. Just from the short time I had there I could pretty much tell that it appeared to be all one animal and not a mass of jumbled up bones from several different animals. In just a short time I found several small shark teeth in the same spot right up next to where all this vertebra is lying. I haven't Id'ed them yet maybe you could look at them and comment on them. I don't have any real good pics of them but I did take a couple of my finds as I always do when I get back off the river. The largest one is roughly 11/4" long. I'll get some better pics if you need me to.

[olddude]

16 hours ago, Searcher78 said:

Since it has an groove running down the bone, does that mean buffalo?

Not according to the pro's over in the ID section they dubbed it as cow.

[shark57]

The well preserved tooth in the bottom of the picture is Striatolamia, an Eocene and Paleocene tooth. The other 2 teeth are probably worn examples of the same, but it's hard to tell for sure. The bones are most likely a from Miocene whale. The teeth may be coming out from a layer below where you spotted the vertebrae.  When times get a little safer, I may be able to come down and help you indentify the different layers if you like. I work with one of the best stratigraphy experts on the east coast.

[olddude]

14 hours ago, shark57 said:

The well preserved tooth in the bottom of the picture is Striatolamia, an Eocene and Paleocene tooth. The other 2 teeth are probably worn examples of the same, but it's hard to tell for sure. The bones are most likely a from Miocene whale. The teeth may be coming out from a layer below where you spotted the vertebrae.  When times get a little safer, I may be able to come down and help you indentify the different layers if you like. I work with one of the best stratigraphy experts on the east coast.

I would love to take you up on that and that will give me some time to get back to the site and check it out a little better. I have a small boat that I have been putting off getting it back in shape but I will have to add it to my to do list to get her shipshape. We have been using my buddy's boat so I haven't been to worried about it but I seem to be more interested in fossil rocks than the type of rock he's more in to. I'll message you when I get back to the site and get a little better picture of what's there. Thanks for the offer by the way...........

[Daleksec]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:23 PM, shark57 said:

The well preserved tooth in the bottom of the picture is Striatolamia, an Eocene and Paleocene tooth. The other 2 teeth are probably worn examples of the same, but it's hard to tell for sure. The bones are most likely a from Miocene whale. The teeth may be coming out from a layer below where you spotted the vertebrae.  When times get a little safer, I may be able to come down and help you indentify the different layers if you like. I work with one of the best stratigraphy experts on the east coast.

Who is your Stratigraphy expert. 

[Daleksec]

Those teeth are Paleocene from the Aquia Formation.  The formations that acur on the James river start Cretaceous and end in the Pliocene and some areas have Pleistocene. What color was the formation that had the vertebrae? did it have shells in it? if it was a grey layer then it is most likely Aquia some of the areas on the James the Shell are leached. and if it is Aquia then it most likely the fossil is a Crocodile, them being the most common vertebrate to be found in the Aquia Formation.

[olddude]

On 5/2/2020 at 9:18 PM, Daleksec said:

Those teeth are Paleocene from the Aquia Formation.  The formations that acur on the James river start Cretaceous and end in the Pliocene and some areas have Pleistocene. What color was the formation that had the vertebrae? did it have shells in it? if it was a grey layer then it is most likely Aquia some of the areas on the James the Shell are leached. and if it is Aquia then it most likely the fossil is a Crocodile, them being the most common vertebrate to be found in the Aquia Formation.

I got a chance to go back to this spot again this weekend so I could get a better look. The problem is though is that the river is flooded and we didn't get a good low tide. The water was almost all the way up to the edge of the bank where it starts to go vertical and a most of it was covered up. I took a few more shots of what was showing. 

 

I had not heard of this Aquia formation the app I have on my phone refers to it as the Charles city or the Shirley formation which are pretty much the same type formation. I did look it up and sure enough there it was and was a quite interesting read. This area has a section of the Lower Tertiary deposits close by, which does list the Aquia being in it, along with the Brightseat, Marboro, Nanjemoy, and Piney Point among others. I realize the maps on those apps are not exact and can be off some. 

 

There is so much rubbish washed up on this bank it's hard to see the layers but the whole bank has  fine brown sand and pebbles with large rocks some a couple feet wide. from what I could see the layer that this line of vertebra is in is a light colored grey and whitish clay like material and there is some shell mixed in in spots. Hopefully the water will go down and the tides get back to normal soon.

 

[Daleksec]

Are the brown things suppose to be the vertebrae? I don't see vertebrae I see pieces of what looks like bog Iron Wich is Bacon's castle Formation (Pleistocene). But are without a doubt they are not bone if that is what you were referring to.  The Bacon Castle Formation dose Produce Fossils: Foot prints, wood, in some places brittle Stars. The I have only heard of the fossils being found from the Bacon's castle Formation outcrops on the Potomac River on the Virginia side and At Calvert Cliffs, Maryland.

[Daleksec]

This book is useful on the Stratigraphy of the James River. The Virginia Museum I think Still sells them online.

[olddude]

10 hours ago, Daleksec said:

Are the brown things suppose to be the vertebrae? I don't see vertebrae I see pieces of what looks like bog Iron Wich is Bacon's castle Formation (Pleistocene). But are without a doubt they are not bone if that is what you were referring to.  The Bacon Castle Formation dose Produce Fossils: Foot prints, wood, in some places brittle Stars. The I have only heard of the fossils being found from the Bacon's castle Formation outcrops on the Potomac River on the Virginia side and At Calvert Cliffs, Maryland.

I had thought about that possibility and maybe it is Bog Iron. I know there is a layer of it over on the site I've been hunting in the pics at the top of this page but that material doesn't look the same, to me anyway. Hopefully the river will get to normal and I can get back there and get a better look. When I first saw the scattered pieces on the beach they were all laid out in in a position that looked like what you would think a skeleton remains would look like......if that makes any sense.  Not saying you are wrong I just don't know. I may have picked up a couple pieces the last time I was there if I did I'll post some pics of it. I broke my phone and hopefully I can still find them. Supposed to get a new one today.

[olddude]

On 5/5/2020 at 12:14 AM, Daleksec said:

This book is useful on the Stratigraphy of the James River. The Virginia Museum I think Still sells them online.

Museum is still closed because of that virus mess

[Daleksec]

Yes they are. i'm waiting for them to open back up so I can donate most of my fossil collection.