pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Just curious... has any one used a low end commerically available cheap metal detector to hunt pyritized fossils.... question of the sensitivity of detection... will it be able to dectect a pyritized fossil size of a rice grain 4" down in a clay bed? PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig rocks Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Boy, I can tell you're a techie plee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placoderms Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Funny you should ask, I looked into this last year... I started with the following assumptions: I thought that Pyrite can be 50% sulphur and 50% iron. A small coil can pick up smaller objects. On a trip to Florida I visited www.kellycodetectors.com and tried their smallest coil on a 1 inch pyritized trilo no luck. I contacted Gary (http://www3.telus.net/chemelec)/ and he said I could send him a fossil and he would try it out on his specially made coils. I never followed up but you might want to try contacting him. <all I know> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The consummate fossil collector, thinking outside the box and experimenting with tools and technology; my hat's off to you (and it's a Tilley, I might add...)! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Thanks every one for your prompt responses... With imagination... sky is the limit. Yes,I have been exposed by my own postings... I admit it.....I am an unorthodox optic-electronic-mechanical- technology - nerd techy to the core and enjoying every moment...I will test this concept out next spring at Arkona clay pits as I have placed several bids for one of those neat metal detectors on Ebay . Let me tell you what trigger this... On the net... I have seen a 7" (estimate) completely pyritized cephalopod from Hungry Hollow... what better way of finding one of these babies than to employ the use of a metal detector. Always believe in working smarter not harder. PL Edited December 6, 2009 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkfoam Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 You may want to check at Wikipedia on "Metal Detectors" to see what they say. As I understand it the basic (less expensive) metal detectors only detect metals that are electrically conductive, like gold, silver, aluminum, Copper, iron, etc. Now metal compounds like pyrite (Iron sulfide) may not be electrically conductive and therefore would not be detected. I don't remember enough inorganic chemistry to comment on the electrical conduction properties of metal compounds. JKFoam The Eocene is my favorite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 the problem may end up being that most detectorists don't want iron compounds like that detected and the machines therefore are designed not to find that sort of thing... but while you're experimenting, try using uv light to find bones and teeth at night. i've been wanting to try that and haven't gotten around to it. being out at night hunting fossils around here probably isn't a great idea anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I have tried it, and my MDer doesnt pick up pyrite. I put a 5 lbs piece up to my pin pointer, and coil, and nothing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 You may want to check at Wikipedia on "Metal Detectors" to see what they say. As I understand it the basic (less expensive) metal detectors only detect metals that are electrically conductive, like gold, silver, aluminum, Copper, iron, etc. Now metal compounds like pyrite (Iron sulfide) may not be electrically conductive and therefore would not be detected. I don't remember enough inorganic chemistry to comment on the electrical conduction properties of metal compounds. JKFoam good point. thanks for the information. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Interesting concept, if you get anywhere with it please let us know. It sounds like a great idea to me and very plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 I have tried it, and my MDer doesnt pick up pyrite. I put a 5 lbs piece up to my pin pointer, and coil, and nothing..... Thanks very much Jax for conducting real time experiment.... if I win that metal detector on Ebay... I use it to hunt for other stuff ie coins.... it is not big money, PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 the problem may end up being that most detectorists don't want iron compounds like that detected and the machines therefore are designed not to find that sort of thing... but while you're experimenting, try using uv light to find bones and teeth at night. i've been wanting to try that and haven't gotten around to it. being out at night hunting fossils around here probably isn't a great idea anyway... Good point tracer.... I think depending of the make... there may be discriminator circuits on the detector to tune the unit to a particular metal.... I like the idea of UV for the detection of Bone... actually I am looking for Devonian Fish Armour and UV black light should should cause the armor to light up.... thanks. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Interesting concept, if you get anywhere with it please let us know. It sounds like a great idea to me and very plausible. Hi Nicholas: If I win the metal detector on Ebay... I will try it out this spring at Arkona and report back... the pyritized fossil is sitting in a bed of moist clay which means the pyritized fossil is sitting in a sea of electrolytes present in the ground , capable of carrying electric charge and there is a possiblility of minute deviations in the charged field surrounding the pyritized fossil which could equate to detection.... we will see. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The vlf and tr medal detectors will not pick up pyrite. But the older BFO Beat Frequency Oscillator detectors will pick it up if the ground has little or no mineralization. You can get a older bfo detector for 30-50 bucks on ebay. Or you can build one for about 50 bucks. Garrett and Jetco or the best bfo detectors built in the 70's. I have several plans on building bfo units if you want to try that pm me I can email you them. Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 The vlf and tr medal detectors will not pick up pyrite. But the older BFO Beat Frequency Oscillator detectors will pick it up if the ground has little or no mineralization. You can get a older bfo detector for 30-50 bucks on ebay. Or you can build one for about 50 bucks. Garrett and Jetco or the best bfo detectors built in the 70's. I have several plans on building bfo units if you want to try that pm me I can email you them. Seldom... Thanks for the tip ! PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 If you are new to metal detecting, the best place to learn are playgrounds. There's all kind of good things in there, and you don't have to dig deep. Its good to learn your machine that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placoderms Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Good point tracer.... I think depending of the make... there may be discriminator circuits on the detector to tune the unit to a particular metal.... I like the idea of UV for the detection of Bone... actually I am looking for Devonian Fish Armour and UV black light should should cause the armor to light up.... thanks. PL My results with Devonian fish bone from the Silica formation last winter (we all have to do something when we can't collect, right?): 365 nm worked the best... 385 nm and 395 nm didn't fluoresce the bone much. Since I don't have a high power 365 nm light I decided distance from fossil along with quaility of bone eventually made this impracticle for even "night hunting". I do plan to use it on NJ amber if I can ever make it out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placoderms Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The vlf and tr medal detectors will not pick up pyrite. But the older BFO Beat Frequency Oscillator detectors will pick it up if the ground has little or no mineralization. You can get a older bfo detector for 30-50 bucks on ebay. Or you can build one for about 50 bucks. Garrett and Jetco or the best bfo detectors built in the 70's. I have several plans on building bfo units if you want to try that pm me I can email you them. Yes, good call on the BFO Seldom! I didn't try any specimens on older equipment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 If you are new to metal detecting, the best place to learn are playgrounds. There's all kind of good things in there, and you don't have to dig deep. Its good to learn your machine that way. Thanks Jax... will have some fun this summer. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) My results with Devonian fish bone from the Silica formation last winter (we all have to do something when we can't collect, right?): 365 nm worked the best... 385 nm and 395 nm didn't fluoresce the bone much. Since I don't have a high power 365 nm light I decided distance from fossil along with quaility of bone eventually made this impracticle for even "night hunting". I do plan to use it on NJ amber if I can ever make it out there... Thanks for the info Plac! Back to safety... Do not use plastic contact lens when playing with UV as the contact lens can weld to the cornea and when you pull the contact out... your eye lens come out with it and go blind.... this happened +20 years ago to a technician while I studied at Mac U. Got to be careful with UV as it will cause permanent eye damage / polymeraiztion of the pigments in the eye and generate premature cateracts of the lens. I treat myself and bought some NJ Amber 1 lb....from member on this forum... going to have some fun this winter polishing. . PL Edited December 6, 2009 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Eaton Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 This is interesting. Doesn't surprise me that the older technology might work a bit better, that is the way it goes a lot of the time. Metal detecting is one of those things I've always been a bit curious about. For fossils sounds fun. Seems like the pyrite fossils tend to be in "red beds" with a lot of iron around so not sure how it would work in the field. Since the first time I hunted for small shark's teeth the idea has been in my head to use video imaging to locate them. Given how technology has progressed at this point I am betting it would be down to someone just writing an I-phone app to identify the right shapes / coloration for what you are looking for. For things that fluoresce a certain way under UV this might be easier. You could light something up with a relatively weak UV light that a camera could easily see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 This is interesting. Doesn't surprise me that the older technology might work a bit better, that is the way it goes a lot of the time. Metal detecting is one of those things I've always been a bit curious about. For fossils sounds fun. Seems like the pyrite fossils tend to be in "red beds" with a lot of iron around so not sure how it would work in the field. At Arkona clay pits, the frequency of pyritiztion probability increases when higher ferrous concentration is present in the ground.... The BFO metal detector maybe able detect localized pockets or strata of higher iron deposits, ... once a layer of high iron is detected ... simply dig laterally and your odds of pyritized fossils should increase dramatically...I will test this concept out next spring .... back in 2007 ... published in the UK... a complete rare pyritized worm was extracted from the north clay pit... well back to Ebay I now own 4 NIB old type detectors metal detectors all claiming to be able to detect iron... PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Oboy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) The vlf and tr medal detectors will not pick up pyrite. But the older BFO Beat Frequency Oscillator detectors will pick it up if the ground has little or no mineralization. You can get a older bfo detector for 30-50 bucks on ebay. Or you can build one for about 50 bucks. Garrett and Jetco or the best bfo detectors built in the 70's. I have several plans on building bfo units if you want to try that pm me I can email you them. Here is an update ... my $50 vintage metal detectors turns out to be all VLF/Tr type and like Seldom said.... will not detect pyrite ... I just found a list of Garret BFO models on the following link... (http://www.findmall.com/read.php?32,613550,613550) They include BFOs (zero drift) The Hunter The Provider The Hustler The Achiever The Sidewinder The Playmate The Finder The Seeker The Shark (underwater detector) PL Edited December 22, 2009 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The Garret Sidewinder is a great BFO detector but hard to come by I have had mine for over 30 years and still use it when I hunt old home sites battle fields etc. All so Jectco made a good one I think it was called Treasure Hawk. Before you buy anymore let me check around a little. Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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