ziggycardon Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Hi everyone, I just recieved this skull which I bought as an impulse buy. I normally do some research before I buy anything and I usually try to stay clear from fossils from China, but this skull got the better of me and without thinking it through I purchased it. I bought the skull as a Felis sp. skull found in the Gianhe Beds, Gansu Province, China (Miocene, 10 mya). I've been wanting some feline or mustelid material for quite some time and I bought this specimen without keeping a clear head, knowing all to well in the back of my head that many of these fossils are composites, not to mention the legality of most vertebrate fossils from China. Kinda feel like an idiot right now And besides all that I am not entirely convinced of it being Feline after all, could be a Mustelid as well, or just a Frankenstein monster. Here are some photo's of the skull, it is all by all a relatively nice skull, but I believe there composite elements to it. Here are the area's that I suspect where there might have been repears or composition. These teeth seem off to me, they look quite big for the skull, and Felis sp. jaws normally don't have this many teeth in the lower jaw. This type of dentition looks more alligned with those of Mustelids (of which a number where present duing the Miocene of this area). I'll probably try to prep the teeth a little bit more in the coming days to see if I can expose some roots of sort. There is an area that has some strange coloration and texture, I believe some repairs or composition that they have tried to hide. This area has quite a strange texture and color, I am quite positive that this was added in. (Maybe with some modern bone of plaster), I'll probably have a look with the microscope tomorrow. For the rest, some good points of the skulls: Each lower jaw looks okay, both side of the lower jaw have imperfections and fractures that run from one end to the other. (Only the front area that is circled looks like it is composite) Some goes for the front part of the skull, all seems natural and okay untill it hits the bit in the middle of the skull that I circled. One of the canine teeth looks to be original as well, with the root that goes into the skull as it should be, some goes for on of the first 2 premolars in the right lower jaw and the first one in the left jaw. It are the rest of the teeth of which I have doubts if they are natural and not placed in, as well as the front jaw piece with the incisors and some area's of the backside of the skull. I hope some here might give me some clarity how much of this specimen is a composite and whether it is Feline of Mustelid. I just hope I didn't bumb my toes to hard on this skull, at least it will be lesson for the future. Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggycardon Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 Update: I have been removing some matrix around the teeth to discover some plaster which comfirms my suspicions. I am pretty sure that both lower jaws and the front part of the skull are genuine fossils (although probably belonging to different animals, maybe even different species). I also suspect that most (if not all) of the teeth are placed, held together with this plaster mix and covered up with matrix. same goes for the back of the skull, probably a genuine fossil, but added (and probably from an other individual). I am glad I didn't payed too much for this skull as I had quite a large discount at the shop. I am probably going to label it as a "Feline/Mustelid skull composite" since I suspect that the front of the skull as well as the teeth are probably genuine feline or mustelid fossils. 1 Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiros Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Seems a very bad Frankenfossil, maybe you can recover the single pieces dismantling it and trying identifying it. It seem a mix of felidae hyena and mustelidae 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeannie55 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Is it common for all the teeth to be in place? I find mole, gopher, cow, and coyote skulls quite often (not fossilized) and often a few of the teeth may be missing. Of course, I live in a rural area and there are always skeletons or bones out in the field. The cow and bull skulls come from the ranch where my daughter works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggycardon Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, Kiros said: Seems a very bad Frankenfossil, maybe you can recover the single pieces dismantling it and trying identifying it. It seem a mix of felidae hyena and mustelidae I was thinking on probably dismanteling it in de future, removing and salvaging the teeth to ID them later, remove the jaws and remove the front part of the skull (while keeping the upper teeth for display). Although I probably leave it for the coming year. Having looked at it through the microscope I am quite confident the front part of the skull (frontal & nasal bones) is probably all from the same specimen (the imperfections seem to blend even there where there are fractures) The back of the skull (parietal bone) seems to consists of 2 different pieces, on on the right and one on the left. The jugals bones are also placed in. Then there are the lower jaws, the right lower jaw seems to be one piece of jaw and so does the left lower jaw. The teeth are probably (perhaps with one or two exceptions) all placed in an not associated, probably even different species, especially the last molars don't seem feline to me. The maxilla is plaster, as is the piece of bone that holds the lower incisors. I am glad the front of the skull is one piece and the lower teeth are salvageable so the money isn't entirely wasted, due to my discount I didn't pay a huge amount for it. I don't really think I lost much money since the most defining feature (the front of the skull) seems to be one original piece and the teeth are in good shape, might be a fun future project trying to ID them. And it was a lesson learned I guess, although I quickly realized after the trill of the impuls buy was over that I might have made a mistake, won't happen again soon 45 minutes ago, jeannie55 said: Is it common for all the teeth to be in place? I find mole, gopher, cow, and coyote skulls quite often (not fossilized) and often a few of the teeth may be missing. Of course, I live in a rural area and there are always skeletons or bones out in the field. The cow and bull skulls come from the ranch where my daughter works. It kinda depends on the location I guess, some formations have a better chance at preserving skulls & mandibles with teeth intact than others, the White River formation for instance and most Lagersttättes. While it can happen in the Miocene deposits of the Gansu province as some decent skulls and jaws with dentitions are known for the location, it seems it might not be as common as many of the fossils are composites like this skull where teeth and many non-associated bones where placed together to create as skull. Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The lower jaw seems to be twice the size it should be. Definitely a composite. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 "Frankenfossil" as said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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