Auspex Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hi my friends my last find ,a group of quadripart fronds of Mariopteris sauveuri Stur from Liévin aeraBruno Oh! So beautiful "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thank Auspex for your comment It is more usual to find pinnae of Mariopteris isolated ,the quadripart fronds are more difficult but they show the architecture of this plant Here is my showcase of mariopteris best regards Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Beautiful Plants Bruno ... Thank You !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hi my friends my last find ,a group of quadripart fronds of Mariopteris sauveuri Stur from Liévin aera Bruno http://forums-naturalistes.forums-actifs.com/t4339-mariopteris-muricata-forme-typica-schlotheim Fantastic piece Bruno! I really love specimens that display the larger frond architecture! Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Bruno.... Its a beauty !...I agree with Tim, its very nice to see the (as growing)arrangement of the foliage on the plant... I was told that Mariopteris was infact a form of vine that possibly used the other carboniferous trees as support as it climbed its way to the tree canopy for light... to do this it has 'climbing hooks' on the ends of its tip leafs... Is there any indication of climbing hooks on any of your specimens tip leafs?... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Bruno.... Its a beauty !...I agree with Tim, its very nice to see the (as growing)arrangement of the foliage on the plant... I was told that Mariopteris was infact a form of vine that possibly used the other carboniferous trees as support as it climbed its way to the tree canopy for light... to do this it has 'climbing hooks' on the ends of its tip leafs... Is there any indication of climbing hooks on any of your specimens tip leafs?... Hi Tim and Steve Indication of climbing hooks on this specimen I don't see ,but on this sample I see spike very slender at the tip of leaves Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) A small Asolanus bark , with nice detail preserved Bruno Edited February 13, 2011 by docdutronc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Tim and Steve Indication of climbing hooks on this specimen I don't see ,but on this sample I see spike very slender at the tip of leaves Bruno Really nice material Bruno, you never seize to amaze with the finds you make... It got me all inspired so now I am reading Boersma (1972) again. Haha, yes, if you live far away from the spoil tips like I do you have to make do with reading books about the subject... Darn I want to go searching again Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Bruno.... Thanks... and nice Asolanus.... Re Mariopteris...Its very clear on that example the frequency of the hooks on the frond... I wondered if it was the very tip leaf that had them...I have a couple of hooks preserved in a nodule... theres a photo on Han's website.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) Bruno.... Thanks... and nice Asolanus.... Re Mariopteris...Its very clear on that example the frequency of the hooks on the frond... I wondered if it was the very tip leaf that had them...I have a couple of hooks preserved in a nodule... theres a photo on Han's website.... Yes Steve ,I think it was the very tip leaf that had hooks , my first sample could be a the leaves in the basal part of the plant Mariopteris ,I don't see any hooks !!!! I also saw in Han's website ,this leaf is a very good example , is it one of your finds ??? Best regards Bruno Edited February 14, 2011 by docdutronc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Bruno.... Yes... 'basal' fronds could account for no climbing hooks... very interesting and another piece of the jigsaw or another question for us to find the 'fossil answer'... The majority of the material on the Exceptionally Preserved Plant Material from Crockhey page on his website is from my collection...although Hans found a very nice example of climbing hooks himself when he came over to collect there... We had a very productive week collecting and he found some beautiful plant specimens...Good timing for the excavations Heres my Mariopteris climbing hooks and frond... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Hi my friends Steve nice examples of climbing hooks Juan Carlos from Spain ,has sent me a nice Dicranophyllum gallicum ,Stephanian from " Tremor de Arriba " Spain ,Dicranophyllum is an old conifer .... Bruno http://forums-naturalistes.forums-actifs.com/t4471-dicranophyllum-gallicum Edited February 17, 2011 by docdutronc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Bruno.... Great new aquisition... You must now have material from every continent with a carboniferous exposure Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Bruno.... Great new aquisition... You must now have material from every continent with a carboniferous exposure Yes Steve ,from US ,UK ,Germany ,Spain ,Australia (permian) Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Yes Steve ,I think it was the very tip leaf that had hooks , my first sample could be a the leaves in the basal part of the plant Mariopteris ,I don't see any hooks !!!! I also saw in Han's website ,this leaf is a very good example , is it one of your finds ??? Best regards Bruno Hi my Friends This morning I returned to the heap and surprise in the remains of the stones in which I found one or Mariopteris last week , I noticed the presence of climbing hooks, these organs are only visible imprint on the counterpart best regards Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Bruno.... Beautiful frond!... Your find the 'fossil answers' to everything these days.... soon there will be no questions left lol.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Bruno.... Beautiful frond!... Your find the 'fossil answers' to everything these days.... soon there will be no questions left lol.... In book about "Marioptéridées du Nord de la France" 1953, Paule-Danzé Corsin, creates a new species Mariopteris nervosa-sauveri nov.sp., this species exhibits characteristics common with M. Sauveri and M. Nervosa, page 163 she writes: "When they belong to the terminal fronds or sub-terminal part of frond , which are finished by extensions more or less elongated ". The author gives no explanation for the function of these whips, I remain convinced that these two species are synonymous. I also found a nice Sigillaria scutellata Brongniart Edited February 19, 2011 by docdutronc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Bruno.... yes there is a lot of overlap with the slight variations in the carboniferous plant species being given different names... But when your only getting one piece of a jigsaw at a time its very difficult for anyone to interpret the overall picture from that...its a gradual process finding the majority of the pieces to create a true representation and this process has took hundreds of years so far requiring the input of many comitted individuals ....and its also good we have their work to draw upon to help us with our ID's... Im begining to appreciate the shear beauty of the Sigillaria bark... We are influenced by nature in more ways than we care to admit in all aspects of our lives... Very nice Sigillaria scutellata Brongniart... I photographed this recently for another thread... I think this is the counterpart?...I hope the ID is correct Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Bruno.... Thanks... and nice Asolanus.... Re Mariopteris...Its very clear on that example the frequency of the hooks on the frond... I wondered if it was the very tip leaf that had them...I have a couple of hooks preserved in a nodule... theres a photo on Han's website.... Is this the hook as well? Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Bruno.... yes there is a lot of overlap with the slight variations in the carboniferous plant species being given different names... But when your only getting one piece of a jigsaw at a time its very difficult for anyone to interpret the overall picture from that...its a gradual process finding the majority of the pieces to create a true representation and this process has took hundreds of years so far requiring the input of many comitted individuals ....and its also good we have their work to draw upon to help us with our ID's... Im begining to appreciate the shear beauty of the Sigillaria bark... We are influenced by nature in more ways than we care to admit in all aspects of our lives... Very nice Sigillaria scutellata Brongniart... I photographed this recently for another thread... I think this is the counterpart?...I hope the ID is correct Hi Steve Here is a diagnosis about Sigillaria reniformis in Crookall's book ,it seems me a good interpretation ,look at the pictures and the text Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Is this the hook as well? Hi Romans Yes ;) this a hook in apical position (tip ) , the lateral hooks is in the matrix ,but if you try to dig out these appendage ,the specimen will be deteriorate ,I think the preservation of these hooks ,are very depending about nature and of the hardness of sediment best regards Decidedly, this post on fossil plants is more and more interesting, 16565 vews !!!! :wub: Bruno Edited February 20, 2011 by docdutronc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 RomanK... You can join the Mariopteris climbing hook club... Bruno... Thanks for the pages about Sigillaria... My specimen looks like a couple of the pictures, I'll have a read up sometime in the text... I got a couple of bits earlier... a nice Calamostachys with a strange 'node thing' preserved in the same nodule... Any idea what it could be?... a Fern tip...Laveinopteris loshii looking at the veination... And a seed off a different coalseam that has only done Lepidodendron so far.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) " a nice Calamostachys with a strange 'node thing' preserved in the same nodule... Any idea what it could be?." Hi Steve It is something like this ...., a node with adherent leaves who are in the plan ,very unusual and curious !!!! Asterophyllites ? Best regards Bruno Edited February 20, 2011 by docdutronc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Bruno... Thanks...Yes it does look similar as you say 'in plan'... I had a go at polishing half the seed (as I have plenty of these) to see if there was any definable structure left of it preserved... The internal portion looks like its just got some mineral replacement that has retained the shape of the seed and this was quite lose in the centre, but the polishing revealed the 'husk' potentially had some spines on its external surface... They are only remnants and perhaps I'm seeing something that isnt there but what does everyone think?... Edit...A friend pointed out that sometimes as seeds dry out the 'flanges' in the seed coat can become prominent... Its a possibility that these spines could represent the flanges... Edited February 22, 2011 by Terry Dactyll Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yes Steve ,sometimes seeds can show wings or prominent keels, in this case your seed is perpendicular to the polished surface of the nodule and gives an effect of "spine " Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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