glacialerratic Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Tim, FWIW, all mine were opened with a hammer. Well, I'm just a bit jealous! I'm not very lucky with the plant material. When I do find plant stuff, these nodules are the first to open when freeze/thawed. Plants are about 20% of my collection, and nothing even close to what's being shown here! After I destroyed a super nice/big shrimp with a hammer, that was all for me. Too much time and effort to see something like that crumble... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Hi Bruno, Thanks for your reply! Let me see if I understood you correctly. You say my specimen is decorticated to such a large degree that the (normally two) parichnos scars of Syringodendron are united again to form the one scar I see? This would explain the vertical striae and the holes at the positions of some of the scars. However, what does the "cork-like" material represent then? The scars actually come out of the plane of the ribs, would you expect this after decortication? BTW, you figured some nice specimens yourself! Cheers, Tim Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtdog Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Well, I'm just a bit jealous! I'm not very lucky with the plant material. When I do find plant stuff, these nodules are the first to open when freeze/thawed. Plants are about 20% of my collection, and nothing even close to what's being shown here! After I destroyed a super nice/big shrimp with a hammer, that was all for me. Too much time and effort to see something like that crumble... Tim Tim, check this one out. That's a Kennedy Half, lower right. This nodule's a good 6-8" long. Do you see the chips on the edges? Credit that to my carpenter's hammer. I wish I could lose those. Whenever I see a nice freeze-thaw, I get a little envious at how nice those edges look. That said, to put this into perspective, I've seen part of the Field Museum collection, as well as a few others (Lizzadro, Elmhurst IL, has some pretty decent ones), and, far too many of those have those tell-tale signs of having been hammer-opened, all over those edges. I was in grammar school back when I found this one. Looking back on it, now that I'm entitled senior coffees at McDonald's (and, we shan't say anything further about that ), that nodule looked so beautiful, it would have been a candidate for freeze-thaw, today, no question about it. PS: Sorry about that shrimp, too, pal, that's gotta hurt. FWIW, I'll plead guilty to having shattered one or two, myself. Edited January 26, 2010 by kurtdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Chris....Im really enjoying this thread.... thanks... and wonderful fossils everyone.... WOW!!! Ive photographed a couple of more drawers for you to see of Crockhey stuff.... lets see some more of your collections guys... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Hi all, A lot of nice Mazon Creek material is posted here, so I hope you Mazon-guys can help me with this. I got the specimen below in trade. It is from your area, but I do not have a clue on what kind of plant fossil it is. A dissected Cordaites leaf? Some (very large scale) Annularia leaves? Something completely different? Who can help me ID this thing? Thanks in advance for the help! Ciao, Tim Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacialerratic Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I was in grammar school back when I found this one. Alright, now I am jealous! You're a lucky man, KurtDog, to have been able to hunt back before all them trees and grasses started growing! I first heard of Mazon Creek in '77, but couldn't get any adults to make the 4 hour drive for me -- didn't make it there until 2000. It's a shame they don't take a bulldozer to small sections of Pit 11 each year, peeling back and smoothing out some of the spoil piles... Terry Dactyll, your Crockhey material is amazing. Docdutronc, so are your fossils! Thanks, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtdog Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 You're a lucky man, KurtDog, to have been able to hunt back before all them trees and grasses started growing! It was like taking candy from a baby back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi all, A lot of nice Mazon Creek material is posted here, so I hope you Mazon-guys can help me with this. I got the specimen below in trade. It is from your area, but I do not have a clue on what kind of plant fossil it is. A dissected Cordaites leaf? Some (very large scale) Annularia leaves? Something completely different? Who can help me ID this thing? Thanks in advance for the help! Ciao, Tim Hi Tim, thanks for posting. Looks like partial Cyperites sp.---clubmoss leaves...Let's wait for the experts to offer their opinions....Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 It was like taking candy from a baby back then. Sweet! Pun intended! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 Chris....Im really enjoying this thread.... thanks... and wonderful fossils everyone.... WOW!!! Ive photographed a couple of more drawers for you to see of Crockhey stuff.... lets see some more of your collections guys... Steve, Your Crockhey material is stellar to say the least and it is great pleasure to see everyone's material massed together here. Unfortunately, I know others have posted items in other various threads as well as the gallery and we miss that material. I wish there was a clean way to tie it all together but I realize thats impossible. Bruno, thanks for the Sigillaria/Syringodendron material shots and the explanations! Back on Crockhey....What a joy it must have been to amass that variety. I like plants a bunch and those Calamostachys are really really neat, but dang, there are those Euproops and Belinurus arthropods again. What a thrill it is to see those!! Here are several more items: Another Lepidodendron shot: Lepidodendron aculeatum Sternberg Pennsylvanian, Lower Allegheny Llewellyn Formation, Westphalian D Bernice B Anthracite Bernice M&C co. Bliss Strip Mine Mildred Sullivan County, Pennsylvania, USA I have a small number of Mazon Creek items as well: Annularia and Pecopterids Here's an unidentified Nova Scotia Carboniferous specimen...Lepidodendron and Cyperites? All for now....Keep more items coming. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtdog Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Sweet! Pun intended! Regards, Chris Ahhh, the good ol' days... PS: That's a nice triple Annularia, Chris, mine eyes are going to call it a 4-5 incher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 Hey Gang, I was going thru some Geology books I have and opened this one "Geologic History, Chapters from the Physical History of the Earth" by Arthur Nicols printed awhile ago---back in 1880. I thought it would be interesting to share a reference diagram--a figure showing many of the plant names we have been mentioning in this thread. No digital photography back then! P.S. Now I know some of you are thinking...So if he has an 1880 Geology book that makes him really dang old. Well, let me dispell those thoughts by saying it is not my school book----we didnt have paper back then! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Chris....Kurt's right, thats a nice annularia.... I love seeing them like that as I rarely find them on a stem.... usually just single star shapes in a nodule.....which is strange as there is plenty calamites about our area.... The old reference books, they really put the effort in to doing the drawings, although looking at the samples Bruno has shared, the same love and attention has gone into his book.... I cant wait to get my hands on a copy... I dont know if you have seen this fossil.... its the biggest frond I found.... saying 'I Found'... on arriving at the opencast one night as the drivers were knocking off work, the bulldozer driver informed me he has spotted a big block with a fern on it, and he had rolled it off the pile for me.... when I got there it was about a metre square and in a solid sandstone type material, but it did seem to have layers that might ''just'' split right for me.... So I put a chisel in one of the likely cracks and 'sods law'...I came away with it in 4 pieces (should of got the petrol saw & wedges) but I managed to carry them carefully and not do any damage to the fossil and then reassemble it when I got home.... I thought it looked like it should be in a museum being 'big' so I gave it to one along with a load of nodular material that has since been used by students studying palaentology in 3 dimensional plant reconstruction.... The museum in question is called Lapworth Museum, part of Birmingham University and it is open to the public....if any of you are ever passing that way be sure to check it out, its the origional victorian museum with hardwood and glass display cases... Its like going back in time walking in it.... anyway... enough waffling... heres the fossil.... Paripteris cf gigantea ...Crockhey Opencast... Westphalian A Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Paripteris cf gigantea ...Crockhey Opencast... Westphalian A Steve, MAGNIFICENT Paripteris specimen! Quite rightfully placed in a museum-collection. I will certainly go see it there if I ever get the chance. Does it come from the same locality as the nodular material? The preservation is very different then (I mean, it's in essence a plate). Thanks for showing! Tim Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Hi Tim, thanks for posting. Looks like partial Cyperites sp.---clubmoss leaves...Let's wait for the experts to offer their opinions....Regards, Chris Chris, thanks for the lead! I will search a bit for Cyperites and compare my specimen with the results. I'll report back here if something interesting comes up. Greetings, Tim Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtdog Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 P.S. Now I know some of you are thinking...So if he has an 1880 Geology book that makes him really dang old. Well, let me dispell those thoughts by saying it is not my school book----we didnt have paper back then! Regards, Chris Chris, I'm going to let you in on a secret. I color my hair gray. Not all the way, just in spots. My friends used to tell me, that's backwards. People normally color their hair to remove the gray! I'd explain it, thusly. You see, back when I had just my natural color, I'd find, I'd never get any respect. I'd talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and, I could see it in their faces, nobody was paying any attention. Now, however, it's like, they take one look at that gray, and, it's as if I can hear them thinking: "He must know something, he's been around for sooooooo long!" Sorry, just had to get that one in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Folks, I just want to say that you guys have a great thread going here. I've been peeking at it but staying the the background as I don't have much else to add to what y'all are already saying. Thanks for the great pics! -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Steve, MAGNIFICENT Paripteris specimen! Quite rightfully placed in a museum-collection. I will certainly go see it there if I ever get the chance. Does it come from the same locality as the nodular material? The preservation is very different then (I mean, it's in essence a plate). Thanks for showing! Tim Tim.... yes its from Crockhey... I think Hans photographed this plate to when he was here..... very often contained within the mudstones under our area are layers of rock that also occasionally have plant remains within them .... If you look about 15 foot below the digger in the photo you will see one of these layers of like a sandy siltstone about a metre thick.... as well as quite a serious faultline just to the right of it.... Dave.....lets have a look at some of your best fern plates Edited January 28, 2010 by Terry Dactyll Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Chris....Kurt's right, thats a nice annularia.... I love seeing them like that as I rarely find them on a stem.... usually just single star shapes in a nodule.....which is strange as there is plenty calamites about our area.... The old reference books, they really put the effort in to doing the drawings, although looking at the samples Bruno has shared, the same love and attention has gone into his book.... I cant wait to get my hands on a copy... I dont know if you have seen this fossil.... its the biggest frond I found.... saying 'I Found'... on arriving at the opencast one night as the drivers were knocking off work, the bulldozer driver informed me he has spotted a big block with a fern on it, and he had rolled it off the pile for me.... when I got there it was about a metre square and in a solid sandstone type material, but it did seem to have layers that might ''just'' split right for me.... So I put a chisel in one of the likely cracks and 'sods law'...I came away with it in 4 pieces (should of got the petrol saw & wedges) but I managed to carry them carefully and not do any damage to the fossil and then reassemble it when I got home.... I thought it looked like it should be in a museum being 'big' so I gave it to one along with a load of nodular material that has since been used by students studying palaentology in 3 dimensional plant reconstruction.... The museum in question is called Lapworth Museum, part of Birmingham University and it is open to the public....if any of you are ever passing that way be sure to check it out, its the origional victorian museum with hardwood and glass display cases... Its like going back in time walking in it.... anyway... enough waffling... heres the fossil.... Paripteris cf gigantea ...Crockhey Opencast... Westphalian A Steve, yep Bruno's book will be a treasure. That Paripteris specimen is also a real very large treasure--great to see it--nothing like a little bulldozer help! Would love to get to your neck of the world some day to see the sites. That Lapworth Museum sounds very special and I might even be able to get the wife to go see that one---she's not into fossils much but the Victorian description may be a winner. Wow, she loves English history and wants to go back to the UK someday. As it turns out my son is going on a school band trip to the UK for newyears 2011 but I think our trip will have to wait for a long while, buts its on the list of todos.....Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Ahhh, the good ol' days... PS: That's a nice triple Annularia, Chris, mine eyes are going to call it a 4-5 incher. Kurtdog, yep excellent eyesight. Concretion is 14 cm/nearly 5.5 inches. One last post of pictures and I think I've exhausted the more interesting Carboniferous items in my collection. I have seen some interesting material from other parts of the US but maybe someone has that stashed and bring it out storage and can show us. A small St.Clair piece. Alethopteris sp. and Neuropteris sp. Llewellyn Formation Pennsylvanian Period St.Clair, Pennsylvania USA Dicksonites pluckenetii Schlotheim Saarkarbon, Stefan A Halde Gottleborn Germany Pecopteris polymorpha fa. minor P.Corsin Oberkarbon/Saar Stefan A Ottweiler Gruppe Gottelborn-Reden Halde: Maybach Germany Thanks again everyone for your posts! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 @ Steve: thanks for the explanation. Your area has produced some remarkable fossils, and within a wide taphonomy range! It must be a treat to be able to find both nodular material and plates. @ Chris: nice German material! I especially like the Dicksonites pluckenetii; it is a great specimen (after seeing pieces like that, I definitely want to go to the Göttelborn area some day). @ All: is there someone who has experience with prepping Carboniferous plant fossils? The work below clearly shows that I am an amateur regarding this, and I'd like to learn how to do this better from more experienced plant-collectors. I got into problems with this piece when one of the pinna was located at 'shallower depth' in the rock than I expected (not in the plane of the rest of the frond). As a consequence I cut through part of it (not that I didn't make other mistakes, but this certainly was the biggest). Is there a way to better anticipate the location of the fossil in such layered shales? The specimen is a Crossotheca crepinii Zeiller, 1883, found in Belgium (Bolsovian, Flenú Fm.) BTW. Before: After: Ciao! Tim Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Chris & Tim....Nice fossils..... regarding prep....I think you have done a fine job of cleaning that.... It only requires a little 'tweaking' to make it look like a professional job....I would be tempted to use an airpen to straighten the 'quarry face' effect on the left making it 'flow'.....and you could disguise the mark on the plant with some diluted acrylic paint mixed to a matching colour..... this will enhance the overall appearance of the specimen I think....with very fine plant material you are reliant entirely on the natural separation layer of the fossil from the matrix so I think your best bet in future would be to get a square edge to work from , going across the fossil in this case from right to left, taking small chunks away at a time... this will enable you to anticipate problem fronds early..... Its not easy putting it into words..... I hope you understand..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Heres a few more drawers of plant guys..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacialerratic Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Wow! What is the 'star-burst' one, just below the section of calamites stem, 3rd photo? Thanks for sharing! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Tim..... I think I got the ID right . its a rather long annularia....not perfect, but floated my boat so it made it to collection status....... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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