Fossils From Mcabee Ridge, Canada.

[neutrinoboy]

Sorry about the year and a half delay in my participation in this discussion, but I just ran across the debate. I am half owner of the fossil claim the story and discussion was about.

A little background is necessary. The person making the allegations is a professional by the name of Bruce Archibald. Mr. Archibald doesn’t believe in private ownership of fossils and doesn’t even believe non-professionals should collect them. His position is that all fossils at McAbee Ridge are too rare to be in private hands, (no matter how common they actually are). Mr. Archibald has been trying to get the government to take away this legitimate fossil claim from its owners. To this end Mr. Archibald has been manufacturing whatever lies he can come up with and causing trouble whenever possible. He has been contacting as many law makers and news papers as possible with his false allegations. He has spent an enormous number of hours investigating every possible angle of complaint. Only one example is when Archibald found some obscure law I never heard of that says if someone finds a fossil while excavating they must report it to the government. Obviously this is intended for someone digging a basement or ditch who uncovers a large fossil like a mammoth skeleton or something like that. Archibald actually complained to the government Dave and I had broken this law for not reporting every fossil we found after we had the permit to collect fossils commercially! He is one of those extremists who consider any fossils amateurs find “lost to science”.

Here is an interesting fact. Next to our fossil claim is a mineral claim for zeolite. The zeolite is found in the exact same layers as the leaves, insects and fish we find. Imagine, millions of fossils are ground up for kitty litter and Archibald and a few others can’t stop complaining about the fossils we save from destruction and then donate to the government! The more we donate the more Archibald complains. The donation of the rare fossils are proof to him the claim should be taken away.

I am disappointed in those at the Fossil Forum that went along with the lie and congratulations to those who weren’t fooled.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Auspex
Inflamatory accusation deleted

[Auspex]

Is this the discussion to which you are referring?

LINK

[Fossilcollector]

What is the current status of the fossil sites? Who's winning?

[Taxman56]

I passed one commercial site someplace in BC or Alberta when I was in Canada last summer headed east from Vancouver.

Where is this site, season, hours and costs.

I would of love to have spent the day at that closed site last summer even if it meant missing a day from work

[FossilDAWG]

I have a couple of questions which I hope you won't mind answering. Firstly, I wonder how you managed to file a claim on the McAbee site. My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that a person had to actually discover a mineral deposit in order to be able to place a claim. In this case the McAbee site has been known, and collected by amateurs and professional paleontologists, for many decades. I collected there, with Glen Rouse from UBC, in the late 1980's. In fact it is one of the critical sites for understanding the Eocene history of the Okanagan Highlands. You did not discover the site, unless you are ~120 years old, as Dawson published on the site in the early 1900's. So, you filed a claim on a well-known and previously publicly accessible site, then restrict access for your profit. Surely you can understand why people are concerned that now any site, no matter how well known to the public, can be suddenly closed by the first person "entrepreneurial" enough to file a mineral claim on it? Imagine the dilemma faced by the professional who must "publish or perish", yet the moment they publish they run the risk that the site will be closed due to a commercial collector filing a claim?

Secondly, to get the most information about the environmental history recorded in the fossil succession at a site, one needs to collect essentially bed by bed. Do you do this, i.e. can you say precisely which bed a given specimen comes from? According to articles I have read on line, the site is being bulldozed so tourists can collect from fresh piles of shale, in which case information is being lost. Also, are you familiar enough with the published flora and fauna (including insects) that you can be assured of recognizing new species? If so my hat is off to you. The known flora and fauna at Republic (same age, south of McAbee in Washington State for readers not familiar with McAbee) includes hundreds of species, and new discoveries appear regularly in the literature; if properly studied McAbee could well be similarly diverse. Do you allow professional paleontologists and their graduate students access to the site?

I'm genuinely curious about how this situation came about, how the site is managed from a research perspective, and whether or not McAbee represents the future of fossil collecting in British Columbia.

Thanks,

Don

[Fossilcollector]

I feel there needs to be a certain balance between commercial and academic paleo; a working relationship between the two parties.

A certain line is crossed when academia does not want casual or commercial collectors to collect and own fossils; academics who believe fossils should only be owned by museums and research institutions, solely dug by those with degrees. This type of fanaticism is historically dangerous throughout culture and society; resulting in bullying, persecution, and loss of freedoms.

I'm curious as to why the researchers don't take on the zeolite quarry that's turning fossils into kitty litter. Is it their philosophy that its better for a fossil to be destroyed than to end up in a private collection? How many museums have thrown fossils into dumpsters rather than de-accessioning their pieces into the hands of others? (yes, I've heard of this happening at several museums)

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

(to be continued)

-YvW

Edited March 4, 2010 by veomega

[Terry Dactyll]

Reading through both discussions it looks like everyone should be happy with the outcome.... the best and rare material is going to the academics and museums to study and write papers, the collectors and public are getting the opportunity to hunt their own fossils whilst supervised and learning at the same time..... and the financially driven commercial extraction has stopped.... I would imagine the people that own the land are the ones who struck a deal with the fossil collectors, probably sick of people they dont know coming on the land and ripping the rock up, leaving a big mess behind and then to throw salt in the wound seeing the fossils for sale.... It must of been quite upsetting for them....

There is a big mineral company in the UK who puts aside material for fossil collectors to look through, and also stipulates that if they find out you have sold the material they will take you to court and claim the money back although they are quite happy for you to enjoy the fossils you find in your private collection..... collectors being as competitive as they are, they do get to find out.... another famous sea urchin quarry come up with an excuse and stopped allowing collecting.... all the shops down south were full of the stuff.... one beach on the south west coast was stripped for ammolite preserved ammonites, 'caloceras' leaving a 5 meter wide trench running along the beach for a few hundred yards where there was once a shale ridge ....the government stepped in having to make it a site of special geological interest where only loose material can be taken....and no hammering is allowed....Ive heard it said that over zealous private collectors can do just as much damage, so its not only the commercial sector to blame......I find wheres theres money theres trouble.... I'm not against selling fossils at all.... I cant be, as I have bought them.... but you have to appreciate both sides of the coin....