Four Kem Kem theropod teeth

[BirdsAreDinosaurs]

Hi all. These are four theropod teeth from the Kem Kem beds that I am not sure about how to assign them. I was hoping you could have a look and let me know what you think.

 

1. A 3 cm long tooth, I think this one might be Carcharodontosaurid.

 

 

2. This one is 1.9 cm long. Distal serrations are slightly less dense than mesial ones.

 

 

 

 

3. A small one, 1.5 cm. Hard to measure, but mesial denticles appear to have a slightly higher density.

 

 

 

 

4. A 2 cm ugly one

 

 

Thanks! Let me know if you need more info or pictures.

 

[Danielb]

I think number 3 is raptor 

[Jaimin013]

First tooth, I know seller as they also sold me a similar looking one. I believe it's Kem Kem 13 in South-eastern Morocco (Closest village to outcrop as Iferda N'Ahouar east). I have my tooth labelled as a Carch rather than Abelisaur due to the shape but one can never be too certain.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jaimin013

[Troodon]

We know so little and when you add in the mix these small sizes it just adds to the complexity.  Carch features which may be present on larger teeth, include lateral undulations and blood short blood grooves.  The second and fourth tooth might have distal blood grooves but that's about it.  So the others characteristics we have to go on is the overall profile, centrally located carinae and they appear very compressed which lean towards these being an indet. Carcharodontosaurid.   However, I saw some data from Hendrickx that looked at Carcharodontosaurid teeth, but larger ones, and all the Densities DSDI were smaller than one.  So it's worth doing a good Density check on these teeth and taking a good look to see which ones have blood grooves.

They are not abelisaurid.

 

[Jaimin013]

For reference here are the two teeth:

 

Kem Kem 13, Southeastern Morocco (see map which is Iferda N’Ahouar east. Landsat image of southeastern Morocco showing key localities, villages and cities, modified from Ibrahim et al. 2010. Scale bar equals 25 km - https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/47517/ )

 

Measurements: Smaller tooth (left)

Crown height: 25 mm
Base: 12 mm
Width from side profile 6 mm

 

Larger tooth (right)

Crown height: 36 mm
Base: 13 mm
Width from side profile 7.5 mm

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jaimin013

[Troodon]

12 minutes ago, Jaimin013 said:

For reference here are the two teeth:

 

Kem Kem 13, Southeastern Morocco (see map which is Iferda N’Ahouar east. Landsat image of southeastern Morocco showing key localities, villages and cities, modified from Ibrahim et al. 2010. Scale bar equals 25 km - https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/47517/ )

 

Measurements: Smaller tooth (left)

Crown height: 2.5 mm
Base: 1.2 mm
Width from side profile 0.6 mm

 

Larger tooth (right)

Crown height: 3.6 mm
Base: 1.3 mm
Width from side profile 0.75 mm

 

 

 

Size is mm ?

 

 

[Jaimin013]

6 minutes ago, Troodon said:

 

Size is mm ?

 

 

Sorry good spot should be:

 

Measurements: Smaller tooth (left)

Crown height: 25 mm
Base: 12 mm
Width from side profile 6 mm

 

Larger tooth (right)

Crown height: 36 mm
Base: 13 mm
Width from side profile 7.5 mm

[BirdsAreDinosaurs]

35 minutes ago, Jaimin013 said:

Sorry good spot should be:

 

Measurements: Smaller tooth (left)

Crown height: 25 mm
Base: 12 mm
Width from side profile 6 mm

 

Larger tooth (right)

Crown height: 36 mm
Base: 13 mm
Width from side profile 7.5 mm

Thanks for the info, interesting to know where this tooth might have been collected. That first tooth does look pretty similar to mine, although yours is much nicer!

[BirdsAreDinosaurs]

3 hours ago, Troodon said:

We know so little and when you add in the mix these small sizes it just adds to the complexity.  Carch features which may be present on larger teeth, include lateral undulations and blood short blood grooves.  The second and fourth tooth might have distal blood grooves but that's about it.  So the others characteristics we have to go on is the overall profile, centrally located carinae and they appear very compressed which lean towards these being an indet. Carcharodontosaurid.   However, I saw some data from Hendrickx that looked at Carcharodontosaurid teeth, but larger ones, and all the Densities DSDI were smaller than one.  So it's worth doing a good Density check on these teeth and taking a good look to see which ones have blood grooves.

They are not abelisaurid.

 

Thanks! I tried the best I could to get densities for the teeth:

 

Tooth 1: 12/5 mm, both distal and mesial

Tooth 2: 16/5 mm distal, 17/5 mm mesial

Tooth 3: 19/5 mm distal, 21/5 mm mesial

Tooth 4 is too damaged to get reliable counts.

 

About the blood grooves, yes, tooth 2 and 4 have those. Tooth 1 I think I vaguely see some grooves, but not as clear as on other Carch teeth I have. I do not see any on tooth 3.

[Troodon]

Thanks, forgot does the mesial carina extend to the base on all these teeth?

[Troodon]

1 hour ago, Jaimin013 said:

For reference here are the two teeth:

 

Kem Kem 13, Southeastern Morocco (see map which is Iferda N’Ahouar east. Landsat image of southeastern Morocco showing key localities, villages and cities, modified from Ibrahim et al. 2010. Scale bar equals 25 km - https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/47517/ )

 

Measurements: Smaller tooth (left)

Crown height: 2.5 mm
Base: 1.2 mm
Width from side profile 0.6 mm

 

Larger tooth (right)

Crown height: 3.6 mm
Base: 1.3 mm
Width from side profile 0.75 mm

 

 

 

I think the smaller one is a Carch...not sure about the larger one

[Jaimin013]

4 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Thanks, forgot does the mesial carina extend to the base on all these teeth?

On both of mine yes they do

[BirdsAreDinosaurs]

18 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Thanks, forgot does the mesial carina extend to the base on all these teeth?

Yes, it does on all four teeth.

[Troodon]

15 minutes ago, Jaimin013 said:

On both of mine yes they do

I saw that in your images.  Beautiful teeth, I have some from that locality, nice deposit.  That longer tooth is not an anterior one so it's a lateral and it's quite narrow for what I would expect out of a Carch.  Right now it's an indeterminate Theropod.

[Troodon]

Thanks, They are probably all indeterminate Carch.  #3 might be more problematic with that DSDI but we don't have enough comparative data to say much more.

[BirdsAreDinosaurs]

6 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Thanks, They are probably all indeterminate Carch.  #3 might be more problematic with that DSDI but we don't have enough comparative data to say much more.

Thank you and thanks for taking the time for looking into this! Just from overall apearance #3 could be the little brother of #2, so I also think it could very well be a juvenile Carch.

[Troodon]

It does why I said Carch but the DSDI is very different which may be an issue