UK Dino Material?

[Mochaccino]

Hello,

 

What do these two pieces look like? Are they dino material? Hastings subgroup,, Wealden of Sussex, UK.

 

1. Vertebra. Doesn't seem theropod to me at a glance.

 

 

 

 

 

2. "Theropod Foot Cast" is how it was identified. Personally I just see a suggestively-shaped rock.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mahnmut]

Hi Mochaccino,

I agree on the footprint-like rock. There is a general resemblance in shape, but I am quite sure thats a product of erosion or a concretion in the broadest sense. I see nothing that indicates this being a negative of an impression in a palaeosurface, not even sure if its sedimentary rock. Just a nice lookalike.

Best Regards,

J

Edited May 5, 2023 by Mahnmut
additional info

[Bobby Rico]

I doubt it is a foot cast ( gut feeling no ) but playing Devil's Advocate the preservation , the material is spot on from that location . Footcasts are found there really regular, in fact  locally villagers have them in their gardens as ornaments.  Mainly Ornithopod saying that. It hard to be 100%     
 

Here is one in my collection another TFF Members has the right side and I have the left. 

Ornithopod Juvenile Herbivorou's Dinosaur Footcast  from Wealden , Sussex. U.K.

[Mochaccino]

13 hours ago, Mahnmut said:

Hi Mochaccino,

I agree on the footprint-like rock. There is a general resemblance in shape, but I am quite sure thats a product of erosion or a concretion in the broadest sense. I see nothing that indicates this being a negative of an impression in a palaeosurface, not even sure if its sedimentary rock. Just a nice lookalike.

Best Regards,

J

 

11 hours ago, Bobby Rico said:

I doubt it is a foot cast ( gut feeling no ) but playing Devil's Advocate the preservation , the material is spot on from that location . Footcasts are found there really regular, in fact  locally villagers have them in their gardens as ornaments.  Mainly Ornithopod saying that. It hard to be 100%     
 

Here is one in my collection another TFF Members has the right side and I have the left. 

Ornithopod Juvenile Herbivorou's Dinosaur Footcast  from Wealden , Sussex. U.K.

 

Thank you. Honestly I was pretty sure on the cast being just a rock, but seeing that specimen Bobby posted I'm actually not sure now! Any ideas on the vertebra?

[Troodon]

Not sure on the vert since the images are unsuitable for analysis.   When trying to get an ID for a bone you need well lit, straight in images of all sides and not oblique angles.  No hands in the photos.

[Mochaccino]

8 hours ago, Troodon said:

Not sure on the vert since the images are unsuitable for analysis.   When trying to get an ID for a bone you need well lit, straight in images of all sides and not oblique angles.  No hands in the photos.

I see, thanks. I'll see if I can ask for better photos.

[Mahnmut]

Ok, I am not at all familiar with the location. The only way this is a fossil (negative) footprint would be a very finegrained homogenous infill in a deep positive print, leaving a solid negative cast. With some erosion afterwards I see your find. If thats what is typical of the location, then chances go up in my eyes.

Best Regards,

J

[Bobby Rico]

19 minutes ago, Mahnmut said:

see your find. If thats what is typical of the location, then chances go up in my eyes.

This is the right had footprint to mine . It’s another members

Edited May 6, 2023 by Bobby Rico

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:15 AM, Mochaccino said:

2. "Theropod Foot Cast" is how it was identified. Personally I just see a suggestively-shaped rock.

 

On 5/5/2023 at 11:22 AM, Mahnmut said:

I agree on the footprint-like rock. There is a general resemblance in shape, but I am quite sure thats a product of erosion or a concretion in the broadest sense. I see nothing that indicates this being a negative of an impression in a palaeosurface, not even sure if its sedimentary rock. Just a nice lookalike.

 

On 5/5/2023 at 12:38 PM, Bobby Rico said:

I doubt it is a foot cast ( gut feeling no ) but playing Devil's Advocate the preservation , the material is spot on from that location . Footcasts are found there really regular, in fact  locally villagers have them in their gardens as ornaments.  Mainly Ornithopod saying that. It hard to be 100%

 

I'm also having a hard time deciding. It's certainly true that the stone seems fine-grained enough to potentially be a foot cast, the colour matches for foot casts at the location, and it's got the heel-bump opposite the toes. However, the texture of the rock gives me the impression of the cortex to a silex, which wouldn't preserve foot casts.

 

Just for comparison, here's one of mine, from the Wealden Group at Yaverland on the Isle of Wight, which I guess makes it Wessex Formation. Note the fine-grained sedimentary nature of the cast, the three toes and heel.

 

[Mochaccino]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:39 AM, Bobby Rico said:

This is the right had footprint to mine . It’s another members

 

15 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

 

 

I'm also having a hard time deciding. It's certainly true that the stone seems fine-grained enough to potentially be a foot cast, the colour matches for foot casts at the location, and it's got the heel-bump opposite the toes. However, the texture of the rock gives me the impression of the cortex to a silex, which wouldn't preserve foot casts.

 

Just for comparison, here's one of mine, from the Wealden Group at Yaverland on the Isle of Wight, which I guess makes it Wessex Formation. Note the fine-grained sedimentary nature of the cast, the three toes and heel.

 

 

Wow this is surprising, I'm honestly having a hard time seeing either of these as fossils too. If presented in the ID section I would definitely think they were just rocks. You learn something new every day!

[Bobby Rico]

1 hour ago, Mochaccino said:

 

 

Wow this is surprising, I'm honestly having a hard time seeing either of these as fossils too. If presented in the ID section I would definitely think they were just rocks. You learn something new every day!

Maybe our friend @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon has a paper or illustrated guide to post here?

[jpc]

The first bone is definitely a dinosaur vertebra.  And you are correct, not a theropod.  A young animal as the neural arch has not fused, as is evident by the pattern seen on the top side in a few pictures.  Iguanodon?  

 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

2 hours ago, jpc said:

The first bone is definitely a dinosaur vertebra.  And you are correct, not a theropod.  A young animal as the neural arch has not fused, as is evident by the pattern seen on the top side in a few pictures.  Iguanodon? 

 

At that size and with that locality, I believe that's very much possible. Though it'd be iguanodontid, as on the Isle of Wight it'd be most likely to be Mantellisaurus sp., whereas I believe these types of remains from southern England are most often referred to as Valdosaurus sp..

 

5 hours ago, Bobby Rico said:

Maybe our friend @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon has a paper or illustrated guide to post here?

 

Unfortunately, I don't really, as it's not really my area of expertise. I picked up my specimen from Yaverland myself over a guided walk there, with the guide from Dinosaur Isle confirming the ID as a ornithopod foot cast. I should have some more photographs of an ornithopod trackway from the other side of the island from the same trip as well, but can't currently find those photographs back...

[Mochaccino]

15 hours ago, jpc said:

The first bone is definitely a dinosaur vertebra.  And you are correct, not a theropod.  A young animal as the neural arch has not fused, as is evident by the pattern seen on the top side in a few pictures.  Iguanodon?  

 

 

13 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

At that size and with that locality, I believe that's very much possible. Though it'd be iguanodontid, as on the Isle of Wight it'd be most likely to be Mantellisaurus sp., whereas I believe these types of remains from southern England are most often referred to as Valdosaurus sp..

 

 

Unfortunately, I don't really, as it's not really my area of expertise. I picked up my specimen from Yaverland myself over a guided walk there, with the guide from Dinosaur Isle confirming the ID as a ornithopod foot cast. I should have some more photographs of an ornithopod trackway from the other side of the island from the same trip as well, but can't currently find those photographs back...

 

Thank you very much! I didn't realize you actually found that piece yourself @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon, very cool. I would've just passed it by.

 

 

[jpc]

yes, iguanodontid is more accurate guess.