Carboniferous coprolite??

[Paul ward]

Hoping for some help to identify, pics don't really do it justice because it looks a lot more poo like in reality.

Found at my local river in Manchester UK where there was a landslide and I've found numerous ( mainly stigmaria) fossils any help would be appreciated and a good learning experience for me.

It looks like it might have been stood on with possible toe prints.

[westcoast]

Yes, from last image it looks like a coprolite to me.

[Fossildude19]

Need more in focus close up pictures. 
@Carl  @GeschWhat

[Paul ward]

16 minutes ago, westcoast said:

Yes, from last image it looks like a coprolite to me.

Is it possible to get any idea what it could be from?

[Paul ward]

11 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Need more in focus close up pictures. 
@Carl  @GeschWhat

Will try and take better pictures when I get home 

[Paul ward]

41 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Need more in focus close up pictures. 
@Carl  @GeschWhat

Hopefully these are better.

[GeschWhat]

Most of your photos are still very blurry. I see some fish vertebrae and other fishy bits in this photo, so fish were on the menu. It appears to have been produced by a fish with a scroll valve. Extant (modern) animals known to have scroll valves include coelacanths and some Carcharhiniformes sharks (spadenose, hammerhead, etc.). I don't see any toe prints. Since it was produced by a fish, it could just be that it bumped into something it as it settled on the sea floor. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carl]

It certainly does look extrusive, and maybe scrolled, but I'm skeptical about the inclusions. Have any other coprolites been reported from these deposits?

[GeschWhat]

@Carl I think you are right. I've been looking through my poop, and the inclusions look a lot like what I have seen in coprolites from the Blue Lias. Any chance that formation is exposed in the area this was found? If so, this would be Late Triassic to Early Jurassic rather than Carboniferous.

 

In 1829, William Buckland discussed this type of feature in a lecture On the Discovery of Coprolites, or Fossil Faeces, in the Lias at Lyme Regis, and in other Formations. He found that almost fifty percent of the coprolites from this area contained circular surface features like these. He attributed them to the rings on the suckers of cephalopod limbs, but also pointed out that small fish with vertebrae of the same size and shape were also found in the same sediments. To the best of my knowledge, we haven't yet figured out what these inclusions are.

 

I had a Micro CT scan done of this coprolite. It was pretty dense, so the CT didn't turn out very well. That said, you can make out the mystery inclusions. You may want to compare the inclusions in yours to those in this one from Church Cliff Bay in Lyme Regis. 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by GeschWhat

[Petalodus12]

Could be a coprolite, but also may not be one. Fish back then didn't really have ossified centra (and those that did were VERY rare). Coprolites are often rich in phosphates, so a tan color would make sense. Can you post a picture of the outcrop? Carboniferous fish material tends to occur in very specific lithologies, so understanding where this would come from (e.g. above a coal vs. in a channel sandstone) would be useful.

[Paul ward]

On 7/21/2023 at 12:24 AM, Petalodus12 said:

Could be a coprolite, but also may not be one. Fish back then didn't really have ossified centra (and those that did were VERY rare). Coprolites are often rich in phosphates, so a tan color would make sense. Can you post a picture of the outcrop? Carboniferous fish material tends to occur in very specific lithologies, so understanding where this would come from (e.g. above a coal vs. in a channel sandstone) would be useful.

I'll be going back soon so I'll definitely post pictures thanks