SE Texas - What is this thing???

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

I found this today here in SE Texas on a river gravel bank. I can't figure it out. It's fully mineralized.  It has these 2 grooves along the sides, one wraps around somewhat, that would make me think a tooth went there and one in the center that goes thru that has a flat surface on it and  that's unusual to me. On the opposite side there is a facet which adds to my confusion because it's the only one. 

I can't say anything else about this it because I'm lost. No idea. 

And I really, really apologize about the amount of photos... with the light and shadows I was trying to capture as much as I could.

[Brandy Cole]

Really interesting find.  I haven't seen any like it.  It reminds me a little of an auditory bulla or part of an internal skull structure.

 

 

@Shellseeker

Edited September 25, 2023 by Brandy Cole
Spelling correction

[Dino lover]

Coprolite?

[Shellseeker]

I am thinking 1) Dugong (not sure it was in Texas) and need to check Mastodon/Gomphothere.

Here is Dugong, one of @Harry Pristis  GREAT Gallery pictures.  @Boesse is great on these larger mammal ear bones

[Brandy Cole]

@Shellseeker From what I remember, dugong is possible, but a rare find in Texas.  I think most, if not all, of the known dugong finds have been made along the coast.  That would be further east than where this find was probably made.

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

Thank you @Brandy Cole and @Shellseeker for your incredible insight. I would have never thought of that! Dugong would be insane! I always watch YouTube videos of of members finding dugong material in Florida... had no idea it was even found here in Texas. I'm gonna read up on it. 

[garyc]

I have never found dugong material on the Brazos or Colorado Rivers. I would think if dugong were here, I’d at least have found a rib. That said, I agree it looks cranial 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@garyc Rib is the most common bone found in all of the videos I've seen in Florida. I just read a couple of articles of rare Ice Age manatee material found here in Texas but all found near Galveston. I'll attach. 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

https://hoasrc.com/2020/10/25/ice-age-manatees-in-texas/

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

https://news.utexas.edu/2020/10/01/ice-age-manatees-may-have-called-texas-home/

[Brandy Cole]

I do think based on the locality and rarity of the finds, it's extremely unlikely to be dugong. 

 

I would be inclined to rule out our most likely suspects around here first.  It doesn't look like mammoth to me, but mastodon and giant sloth should probably be considered if it does turn out to be an auditory structure.  Maybe even a large bison or camelid.  

[Brandy Cole]

https://www.dvm360.com/view/acvp-2017-key-features-of-the-middle-ear-in-veterinary-species

 

This was informative on which species have tympanic bullae.

[Shellseeker]

Here is a thread with Mammoth,  Mastodon.  and Sirenia..   I do not think Bison is comparable....it is more like Horse and Llama

 

[Brandy Cole]

@Shellseeker Well, Jack, as Harry predicted back in '09, I think you've become a go-to guy on these unusual bones.  Nice to see it come full circle.  

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Lorne Ledger

Hello Lorne. I received an email from a paleontologist I know at the UT Austin Jackson School of Geosciences that thinks this could be a possible felid specimen.  He was gonna look further into it. I also have a few other lines out looking for info.

Can you compare this to anything you might have?

It has a divided internal structure and a raised bulbous side. 

Just to make a quick comparison because it might not be that at all...

I did a side by side (although my angle is off) of a jaguar auditory bulla (it has a break on it). I read that big cats sense of smell wasn't as strong as their hearing was and it was because of a large bulla.

Mine is obviously missing pieces on top, but I'd like to get your thoughts. 

There are divided sections @ 1 and 2, the X if it were complete and unbroken on mine would be in that spot, and where the arrow is... the canal seems to fit with the piece...again if mine were complete. In the attached pictures, the bulbous sections look like they vary between cats.  It may not be jaguar and something totally different but this is a direction I'm looking at right now.

Thanks and let me know when you're ready to hunt!

Here are big cat pictures just to show differences. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by johnnyvaldez7.jv

[Lorne Ledger]

Interesting idea.  Judging by the size in your hand it would have to be Panthera onca or Panthera leo atrox.  If P. atrox then that could lend credibility to that ulna you found that I said was a very large jaguar -- I will take a close look at this tomorrow.

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Lorne Ledger Yeah for sure if you could take a look at it, that'd be great. I appreciate it. 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Lorne Ledger IF this is from a big cat here are measurements I took at these angles and some information I found about P. atrox and Smilodon. 

I know the measurements say they are to be taken from the:  Greatest transverse diameter across auditory bulla (foramen lacerum posterius to external auditory meatus).

I'm still trying to decipher that language but I did take these and they favor Smilodon if I took them correctly. 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

Here an interior shot of the divided area.

[Boesse]

This is a tympanic bulla of a land mammal - I strongly suspect that this is a large ungulate, perhaps Bison. The bulla of cats (Felidae) is very thin and much more inflated than what you have. For comparison, here's the view showing the eustachian tube and tympanic ring of Bos taurus (cow) from O'Leary 2016, and a shot of the basicranium of a bison:

 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

I guess this is the tympanic ring on mine? Is it also called a tympanic membrane?

 

I gotta say... mammal ear bones are very, very hard to find isolated online. Especially the tympanic bulla.  I can't find anything other than a few drawings and I can't really tell if it's a cross section or see a shape similar to mine.  I've seen plenty of dolphin and whale ear bones... and horse. I saw a bison photo but I don't think it was a tympanic and illustrations are hard to match.  It could be bison because of the flatness... I'd just like to see an image of one outside the skull for comparison.

Why are these bones so hard to find? Do they not preserve well compared to other bones... as in maybe they are more fragile or delicate?

I wonder if they are rare here in Texas? Anyone have a tympanic bulla for comparison?

[Mahnmut]

Hi,

I cannot help with the ID, but I can perhaps shed some light on your other questions.

The tympanic ring is the bony structure that holds the tympanic membrane, like the frame of a tambourine. Your photo resembles pictures of tympanic membranes, but as far as I know those are usually not bony structures. The tympanic membrane can ossify, but thats a pathology (in humans anyway, I cannot say for sure there are no animals with ossified tympanic membranes). Although ossification of connective tissues is quite variable, I do at least think the function of this membrane would not benefit from ossification.

 

The bones surrounding the inner ear in mammals include the petrosal, which is very compact and dense. The Bulla (which means bubble) may be very thinwalled and thus fragile.

The reason whale bullae are so relatively common finds is that they are very solid and only loosely connected to the rest of the skull as an adaptation to underwater hearing, thats not the norm for landliving mammals. And, like with cranial elements in general, there are only two per animal, unlike ribs, vertebrae etc.

I will see if I can take some reference photos.

Best Regards,

J

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Plantguy did I see a thread from 2015 where you had a bison ear bone... was it a tympanic bulla and did it look like this subject bone?

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

I'm still digging around and asking questions about this ear bone. Having multiple lines out... one of those that came back was from this gentleman who specializes in bison and has quite a few papers on them. Here's what he thinks.  

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by johnnyvaldez7.jv

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

There is also this one from Dr. Rossi here in Texas from Coastal Veterinary and Ear Clinic who has worked on horse and cattle. Here is his thought on it. 

I'm hoping I can eliminate some choices...  to be able to look at others more carefully.