Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Went out Hunting both Wednesday and Thursday. Already posted Thursday finds. This was a trip back to my happy place, not huntable during the summer rains. To me this hunting trip challenges the conventional wisdom about going home again. Although I have sorted out most broken shark teeth, this is a fair representation of types of teeth 60% Bull or Dusky, 25% Tiger cuvier, 10 % Lemons. There are lots of broken bones, I collected some that I think I might want to identify. There is a lot of whale jaw... here is an example with some bite marks. I make an assumption that these are shark bites, but possibly someone with more knowledge can confirm. Land predators might leave different scars. I used to not recognize these but then Bobby identified them for me in a thread years ago ... and they are rare enough so I always keep them... Staying in the marine mammal finds, an overly worn tooth Some infrequent finds here... There are a couple of Alligator teeth and a nice scute in the photo, but Crocodile is rare... Likely a Glyptodont edge osteoderm Not sure what this one of a kind is... Reminds me of one of Harry's shrimp burrows in miniature. 2 Complete bones. The longer , thinner one is a Proximal Phalanx from Hemiauchenia gracilis, a Blancan fauna that helped me age this location years ago. Below is a research paper photo of 3 Proximal Phalanx of H. gracilis. The top 2 was within the range of 80-85 mm in length. and the caption that the muscle attachments on the proximal end resemble a "W".... The 2nd bone is an Equus Proximal Phalanx.. I found 6 Horse teeth... 4 Equus and 2 Tridactly , one lower , one upper.. The lower I recognize.. it is Nannippus peninsulatus, one of the smallest and most recent Florida Tridactyl Horse that existed in the late Pliocene (Florida Blancan Land mammal age) The other small horse tooth is a badly damaged upper. It does seems to be Nannippus, and that is why I'll try to Identify it . @fossillarry Measurements of the find are APL 11 mm, TRW 10 mm, Crown Height 30 mm. Since this find is missing about 20 % of the tooth, the APL is more likely 13-14 mm Here is an Upper Nannippus Molar to compare APL 11 x 15 x 49 mm. Enjoy, As always suggestions and comments are always appreciated. 2 10 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielb Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 As always amazing finds 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Nice haul of lovely goodies! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 Update... Back in 2015, I found a Crocodile tooth in the Peace River... Here is a picture.. In researching the Florida Crocodile , lots of info on this (even a name change) website https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/species/thecachampsa-americana/ Maybe not as scarce as Hen's teeth, but in Florida--- scarce... Also, Found a Nannippus peninsulatus on PrehistoricFlorida's website.. Side by side comparison with my new damaged find... Looking at that loop on lower right, the upside down "V" in the center top, and the elongated isolated protocone, it is more than likely this is N. peninsulatus, also The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Dream day…. Amazing. Equus distal limb- P1, P2, P3 and what the fossil community calles the distal sesamoid. Finding my own of all 4 bones is the goal. I’m hungry. I learned this week that the fossil anatomy names the Equus navicular and sesamoid bones differently than the modern equine anatomy text books. Very interesting. For example we call the distal sesamoid the navicular bone and the Equus true navicular bones the distal sesamoids. The tendons and ligaments are even named “incorrectly”. We call the distal phalanx the coffin bone. We also call it the distal phalanx but you’re far more likely to hear the modern anatomical verbiage than the later at the clinic. I’ve started a conversation with a veterinarian I work closely with about it. She’s from England so her roots in the study of veterinary medicine will trace to the same roots as American doctors. The question was asked if different cultures also changed the wording based on what the workers developing the trade used to communicate versus the actual anatomist work and diagrams. The teeth are like a gut punch after you already took out my knees!! WHAT A DAY!! Thanks for sharing! Jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 44 minutes ago, Balance said: Dream day…. Amazing. Equus distal limb- P1, P2, P3 and what the fossil community calles the distal sesamoid. Finding my own of all 4 bones is the goal. I’m hungry. I learned this week that the fossil anatomy names the Equus navicular and sesamoid bones differently than the modern equine anatomy text books. Very interesting. For example we call the distal sesamoid the navicular bone and the Equus true navicular bones the distal sesamoids. The tendons and ligaments are even named “incorrectly”. We call the distal phalanx the coffin bone. We also call it the distal phalanx but you’re far more likely to hear the modern anatomical verbiage than the later at the clinic. I’ve started a conversation with a veterinarian I work closely with about it. She’s from England so her roots in the study of veterinary medicine will trace to the same roots as American doctors. The question was asked if different cultures also changed the wording based on what the workers developing the trade used to communicate versus the actual anatomist work and diagrams. The teeth are like a gut punch after you already took out my knees!! WHAT A DAY!! Thanks for sharing! Jp Veterinarians have a whole set of different terminology for horse bones and joints than regular people (which includes paleontologists). Ask a vet about a horse knee someday... the one I talked to pointed to its wrist. On the FRONT leg!!! The knee, to a non-equine anatomist is the joint between the distal femur and the proximal tib/fib... miles away from the front leg. Human anatomists have slightly different names as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 @jpc precisely! I call the true knee the stifle joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Stifle joint? Never heard of that one. Are you a vet? Or a horse owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 @jpc I’m a farrier but I do a lot of therapeutic work for veterinarians. The standard training for the American Farriers Association certification program teachs the anatomy of the equine distal limb. Unfortunately this training is optional and most farriers are not educated at this level. Learning to speak “vet” is non negotiable if you want to understand your job and the horses needs. No foot no horse. With fluffy on a trail ride you just miss a weekend. With Excalibur at the Championship you miss a year’s training and probably the horse’s career. So like all trades there are different levels of need and service. And you are correct. The knee on the horse is the wrist on a human. So they are backwards twice. Jp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 twice... indeed. : ) Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Jack Once again really neat horsey stuff. The Nannippus penninsulatus lower tooth is ,I believe, a lower premolar 3/4 rather then a molar 1/2. The partial upper tooth is also N. penninsulatus ,probably M.3. Funny, that N. Penninsulatus upper tooth from Prehistoric Florida you showed to illustrate this species, I bought from them some time ago. Are the Equus teeth and bones from the same locality as the N. penninsulatus? If so, this would make them a very uncommon Latest Pliocene or Earliest Pliestocene probably new species of Equus. Nannippus penninsulatu became extinct around 2.5 million years ago so your specimens are at least that old. These horse fossils are very exceptional finds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, fossillarry said: Jack Once again really neat horsey stuff. The Nannippus penninsulatus lower tooth is ,I believe, a lower premolar 3/4 rather then a molar 1/2. The partial upper tooth is also N. penninsulatus ,probably M.3. Funny, that N. Penninsulatus upper tooth from Prehistoric Florida you showed to illustrate this species, I bought from them some time ago. Are the Equus teeth and bones from the same locality as the N. penninsulatus? If so, this would make them a very uncommon Latest Pliocene or Earliest Pliestocene probably new species of Equus. Nannippus penninsulatus became extinct around 2.5 million years ago so your specimens are at least that old. These horse fossils are very exceptional finds. Thank you for the positional IDs. Now that I think of it, I guess searching the forsale sites might get me a view of some teeth in your collection. Are the Equus teeth and bones from the same locality as the N. penninsulatus? Yes, I have always felt some of the Equus like teeth found at this location were below the size range of Equus . The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Jack can you show the crown view of some of the Equus teeth from this site? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal Stareasaurus Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 I have found many beautiful and unique gar scales at what I'm thinking is the same place you found yours. Any alligator teeth I find are shorter and more blunt as the one you posted from 2016. Nice finds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Donna Straw said: I have found many beautiful and unique gar scales at what I'm thinking is the same place you found yours. Any alligator teeth I find are shorter and more blunt as the one you posted from 2016. Nice finds though. Sorry for the confusion. I did find Alligator teeth on this hunt. These are pretty common and I generally find lots of them every year, On this hunt, I found one Crocodile tooth, which for me is a scarce find. In 15 years, I have only found 5. The one on this hunt is 22 mm.. Note the carina which is present on most Alligator teeth, but this tooth, different from Alligator, also has longitudinal "groves". It is straighter and thinner than the normal Alligator tooth. Below is my longest Crocodile tooth, found in the Peace River 7 years ago. This Florida Crocodile , Thecachampsa americana Sellards, 1915 went extinct 6 mya in the Miocene which is why it seems so rare. 2 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 10/30/2023 at 9:36 AM, fossillarry said: Jack can you show the crown view of some of the Equus teeth from this site? Thanks Sorry for the delay, Out of pocket today... I'll get the crown views of the ones I found this week posted in the next hour or so... which watching the ballgame. @fossillarryBallgame almost over.. Here are the horse teeth (minus the two Nannippus (upper and Lower) above) found on the 25th and 29th at this site. I also had 3 partials I have found at least one Cormohipparion ingenuum (below). As time permits, I will review records for other photos of Equus teeth The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Thanks Jack for the crown view of the Equus teeth. They are about right for a moderate sized species of Equus. The teeth are more advanced then the "Pleisipine" simplicidens of the Early Blancan . As the systematics of the species of Equus are very unsettled at this time I can't give a species name to these teeth. I am afraid to tell you, but the tooth you id as Cormohipparion ingenuus is actually Nannippus pininsulatus, sorry but it is a nice specimen. Jack what kind of camera do you use to get such detailed pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, fossillarry said: Thanks Jack for the crown view of the Equus teeth. They are about right for a moderate sized species of Equus. The teeth are more advanced then the "Pleisipine" simplicidens of the Early Blancan . As the systematics of the species of Equus are very unsettled at this time I can't give a species name to these teeth. I am afraid to tell you, but the tooth you id as Cormohipparion ingenuus is actually Nannippus pininsulatus, sorry but it is a nice specimen. Jack what kind of camera do you use to get such detailed pictures? Thank you. I like identifications , I like new knowledge. I have no problem retyping the Identification on the photo. I will go back and figure out why I settled on Cormohipparion instead of Nannippus. It is a nice specimen! I have real joy whenever I find one. I have an iphone 12 pro, take photos under a Halogen light, 2 shots (1x and 2x zoom) and then use "irfanView" photo editing program to crop and enhance better photo. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Jack is the irfanView part of your phone system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 19 minutes ago, fossillarry said: Jack is the irfanView part of your phone system? No, Photos automatically go to Apple Cloud, download to a Windows10 Laptop. Edit them there... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Jack does this mean I need an Apple iphone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 13 hours ago, fossillarry said: Jack does this mean I need an Apple iphone? Pricey... pricey and not everyone is pleased with Apple https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/its-not-that-huawei-is-superior-its-that-apple-is-inferior-what-the-chinese-internet-is-saying-about-the-iphone-15/ar-AA1j8s3J You have to evaluate... There is Apple and Samsung.. the new Samsung does this Meet the Samsung Galaxy S23, the phone that takes you out of the everyday and into the epic. Record in stunning detail with cinematic 8K Video @ 30fps – the highest recording resolution available on a smartphone. Enjoy your favorite content on a bright, beautiful 6.1” FHD+ Dynamic AMOLED display. Capture vivid detail with a triple lens camera and a 50MP resolution main lens with up to 30X digital zoom. Life doesn’t wait for the perfect lighting, but with Nightography, you are always ready to seize the moment even in low light and snap memories like a pro. See your content no matter the time of day on a display with a refresh rate up to 120Hz and Adaptive Vision Booster. Best of all experience all this on the nation’s largest and fastest nationwide 5G network* Others may have different views... I am staying with my Apple 12 pro, it's paid for... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossillarry Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Thanks for the info Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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