Real or fake mosasaur jaw

[ruminate]

Came across this mosasaur jaw, wondering its real or fake. Thanks!

[North]

To my eyes, it seems real.

But always good to hear others opinion.

[Darktooth]

The jaw is real, but the portion containing the front 2 teeth has been restored / repaired. And I am not sure those teeth come from the same animal considering they have a completely different morphology then the rest of the teeth. 

[ruminate]

3 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

The jaw is real, but the portion containing the front 2 teeth has been restored / repaired. And I am not sure those teeth come from the same animal considering they have a completely different morphology then the rest of the teeth. 

Yeah the seller said it has one repair (it had a crack wich need filling and stabilizing)

[North]

Left part has teeth from front of the jaw and right from more back. Im not sure how fast teeth morphology change in the jaw, but it could be missing area between.

 

But crack lines up really well, so if it does, someone saw huge ammount of effort to line it up. It would have been lot less effort to leave a gap between.

[trilobites_are_awesome]

Or some of the teeth could  have been mounted on a real jaw then put in matrix?

[ruminate]

4 minutes ago, trilobites_are_awesome said:

Or some of the teeth could  have been mounted on a real jaw then put in matrix?

Honestly im not sure

[Frightmares]

It seems odd having the different tooth morphologies there. They look like they're from different species. Maybe someone that knows a bit more on mosasaurs could weigh in.

[mr.cheese]

I am no expert but I have seen and handled a fair few real and fake jaws.

My 10 cents is it is all real just not from the same beast.

The front section of jaw aside from the teeth being wrong, when you look at it from a distance the jaw is a slightly different colour.

There is a case for the teeth changing due to progression but I dont think so.

Two different species I recon. Whether the teeth have been added is up for debate too as if you were doing that you would use the right ones I would assume.

If its a prospected buy then I would stay away!

There is better out there!

[Maxaurus]

3 hours ago, mr.cheese said:

I am no expert but I have seen and handled a fair few real and fake jaws.

My 10 cents is it is all real just not from the same beast.

The front section of jaw aside from the teeth being wrong, when you look at it from a distance the jaw is a slightly different colour.

There is a case for the teeth changing due to progression but I dont think so.

Two different species I recon. Whether the teeth have been added is up for debate too as if you were doing that you would use the right ones I would assume.

If its a prospected buy then I would stay away!

There is better out there!

I agree.. the front section looks slightly different in terms of color and also texture.

But the different teeth morphology is the biggest concern for me.

[ruminate]

Thanks guys, prob still gonna buy it as long as some of it is still real and not 60% composite hopefully il find a better one!😄

[ruminate]

Ok i found another one the seller said most of the tooth has been reattached but is the jaw real?

[mr.cheese]

5 hours ago, ruminate said:

Ok i found another one the seller said most of the tooth has been reattached but is the jaw real?

Persistent!

So this one I am sceptical about the bone itself!

If you look at the first one you looked at you will see dots running along horizontally. Those are where the muscles attached to the jaw. There is no real trace of them on the second jaw which makes me warey!

Look again!

[North]

1 hour ago, mr.cheese said:

Persistent!

So this one I am sceptical about the bone itself!

If you look at the first one you looked at you will see dots running along horizontally. Those are where the muscles attached to the jaw. There is no real trace of them on the second jaw which makes me warey!

Look again!

Do you mean mandibular canals foramen?

[North]

I think bones might be real, but you need much better picture to be sure.

Im suspicious if teeth are added since bottom of the teeth look lighter, but that needs close ups.

[mr.cheese]

4 hours ago, North said:

Do you mean mandibular canals foramen?

Yes I think so?!

[mr.cheese]

4 hours ago, North said:

Do you mean mandibular canals foramen?

Just had a read, well there you go. I was told very different information! Thank you for that @North

[North]

24 minutes ago, mr.cheese said:

Yes I think so?!

For my understanding, those are actually mostly for nerves and blood vessels. Playing major part for sensing with the jaws. I think t-rex Sue's skull was CT scanned to study this.

 

Sorry I wrote too long.

Edited November 29, 2023 by North

[mr.cheese]

36 minutes ago, North said:

For my understanding, those are actually mostly for nerves and blood vessels. Playing major part for sensing with the jaws. I think t-rex Sue's skull was CT scanned to study this.

 

Sorry I wrote too long.

Not too long at all!

I had it all wrong, thank you for teaching me!

It was interesting reading.

[mr.cheese]

7 hours ago, mr.cheese said:

 @North 

Persistent!

 

So this one I am sceptical about the bone itself!

 

If you look at the first one you looked at you will see dots running along horizontally they are the mandibular canals foramen Those are where the nerves and blood vessels to the jaw run through the jaw. @North :zzzzscratchchin:😉There is no real trace of them on the second jaw which makes me warey!

 

Look again

Edited November 29, 2023 by mr.cheese

[ruminate]

Oh alright guys thanks a lot😄

[Psittacosaur9]

I mean, if you really want to, you could buy one of the jaws and then manually separate the pieces. A bit of effort but at least you get more authentic pieces. Just be careful to not break the fossils themselves.

[Praefectus]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:28 AM, Darktooth said:

The jaw is real, but the portion containing the front 2 teeth has been restored / repaired. And I am not sure those teeth come from the same animal considering they have a completely different morphology then the rest of the teeth. 

 

Teeth look original to me. The morphology difference is the gradual increase in crown robusticity seen in prognathodontine mosasaurs. The back teeth had more crushing function. 

 

TMP 2007.034.0001, Prognathodon overtoni

[Praefectus]

On 11/29/2023 at 2:52 AM, ruminate said:

Ok i found another one the seller said most of the tooth has been reattached but is the jaw real?

 

 

This jaw looks much more reconstructed. I am suspicious of if the teeth are original and how well the piece has been put together. 

 

 

On 11/29/2023 at 8:19 AM, mr.cheese said:

If you look at the first one you looked at you will see dots running along horizontally. Those are where the muscles attached to the jaw. There is no real trace of them on the second jaw which makes me warey!

 

On 11/29/2023 at 2:14 PM, North said:

For my understanding, those are actually mostly for nerves and blood vessels. Playing major part for sensing with the jaws. I think t-rex Sue's skull was CT scanned to study this.

 

 

The oval-shaped dots are foramina. They function as exits of for the motor-sensory nerve endings of the Trigeminal Nerve (CN V). I'm pretty sure the bone is an upside down maxilla, so the nerve exits are part of the maxillary division, not mandibular.

[jpc]

those 'dots' are only on the inside (lingual side) of the jaw in reptiles.  If a jaw doesn't have them, then it could be the external (labial) side of the jaw.