Requesting help with my first vertebrate prep job (It's a big one!)

[DokDeino]

Greetings! 

 

I'm Dok Deino, a Paleontology student who is going into fossil prep. Fortunately, I was able to negotiate a volunteer position with my college advisor. My job: to prepare some specimens that have been in the collection for about 60 years. And one of them is pretty big. 

 

It's an unidentified sauropod femur, approximately 1.6-1.8 meters in length, weighing at least 70 kg. Genus unknown, but it is most likely from the Morrison formation. I believe the attached photo is a caudal view of the femur, if anyone wants to take a crack at ID-ing it. My professor and I are currently brainstorming our method of attack, but since neither of us are preparators (yet, in my case), I wanted to reach out to people who are. 

 

There's another specimen as well, but we have no idea what it might be. It's a 1.2x.2x.5 meter block of plaster, basically. All we know about the specimen is that the people who retrieved it only jacketed Dinosaur remains. 

 

So, if anyone out there has some advice, please respond! Whether for these specimens specifically, or just in general. This is an interesting field that I am very excited to break into! 

 

Thank you for reading, 

 

-Dok

[jpc]

Hi Dok-

 

Looks like a challenging project.  I have worked on a few Morrison bones in similar matrix (at least as I can tell from photos).  Can be both a pain in the butt and a blessing.  Sometimes the matrix comes right off, other times, it just fights you all the way.  But airscribes are the way to start.  And you may have to resort to air abrasives for the final touches.  As for that jacket, the key to opening it is to go very slowly and not put any additional scars (tool marks) in the bone.  If oyu need more advice about opening jackets, feel free to Pm me.  

 

[DokDeino]

30 minutes ago, jpc said:

Hi Dok-

 

Looks like a challenging project.  I have worked on a few Morrison bones in similar matrix (at least as I can tell from photos).  Can be both a pain in the butt and a blessing.  Sometimes the matrix comes right off, other times, it just fights you all the way.  But airscribes are the way to start.  And you may have to resort to air abrasives for the final touches.  As for that jacket, the key to opening it is to go very slowly and not put any additional scars (tool marks) in the bone.  If oyu need more advice about opening jackets, feel free to Pm me.  

 

jpc - Thank you for your response! I am looking into getting an airscribe for the cleaning. Other than that, the University has a good supply of small drills and circular saws. Our current plan is to cut a small exploratory hole to see if the specimen has fragmented inside the jacket. If it has, I'll be pouring in a blend of epoxy and ethanol to help consolidate what remains; applying more as I go. 

 

Do you have any recommendations for air scribe brands? We don't have a definitive budget yet, but we want to keep it somewhat low. 

[Ludwigia]

34 minutes ago, DokDeino said:

Do you have any recommendations for air scribe brands? We don't have a definitive budget yet, but we want to keep it somewhat low. 

 

Are you aware that you'll be needing a good compressor and some other hardware in order to drive the air scribes?

[DokDeino]

33 minutes ago, Ludwigia said:

 

Are you aware that you'll be needing a good compressor and some other hardware in order to drive the air scribes?

That I was not. I'm not familiar with air scribes at all

[Xiphactinus]

Before you do ANYTHING I suggest you visit some museums and universities with paleo labs and view their tools, set ups and techniques. And I would suggest you start on something much smaller and simpler. 

[Ludwigia]

46 minutes ago, DokDeino said:

That I was not. I'm not familiar with air scribes at all

 

Then check out this topic to get some ideas. If you scroll through the Fossil Preparation section, you'll also find some other topic with helpful tips.

[rocket]

best is to ask for someone who can support you directly for the first steps. Where are you located? Perhaps one of the TFF Members can support. The first time working with air scribes its not so easy as it seems to be. It takes some time of experience to learn how to use them in the right way. 

[DokDeino]

1 hour ago, Ludwigia said:

 

Then check out this topic to get some ideas. If you scroll through the Fossil Preparation section, you'll also find some other topic with helpful tips.

Will do, gratzi! 

[DokDeino]

2 hours ago, Xiphactinus said:

Before you do ANYTHING I suggest you visit some museums and universities with paleo labs and view their tools, set ups and techniques. And I would suggest you start on something much smaller and simpler. 

I've been to a few, and consulted with several working preparators about preparation in general. I'm posting here more for specific advice. 

 

I do have some fossil prep experience, just not with bones. I've cleaned plenty of shells, corals, scattered teeth, and bryozoans. This is more so my first *big* project

[DokDeino]

10 minutes ago, rocket said:

best is to ask for someone who can support you directly for the first steps. Where are you located? Perhaps one of the TFF Members can support. The first time working with air scribes its not so easy as it seems to be. It takes some time of experience to learn how to use them in the right way. 

I'm stuck in Iowa, sadly. I don't know anyone in-person who's involved with the forum. Though my advisor does have experience with them. He's advising me to stick to simpler tools for now. 

[trilobites_are_awesome]

@DokDeino Do you have some less good specimens you could practice on?

[DokDeino]

16 hours ago, trilobites_are_awesome said:

@DokDeino Do you have some less good specimens you could practice on?

That's what I'm doing right now, actually. I'll update the main post if I can

[DokDeino]

Update to this post (because I don't know how to edit the main text): I am not working on the big specimens just yet. Before I start work on those, I'm practicing with my university's tools on smaller, less important specimens. Namely shellfish, teeth, and chert nodules from my personal collection. I'm going to make certain that I am well prepared before I start on the femur or mystery specimen. We're really just in the early planning stages of this project. 

 

It will probably be a month or more before I can post about any significant progress on the big specimens. Believe me, I want to do as good a job as I possibly can! 

 

All that said, thank you for all the fantastic advice that has been shared so far. I've been tearing through old forum posts as well, writing pages of notes, and my brain is buzzing with ideas. I look forward to working more with you all in the future! 

 

-Dok

[jpc]

I Pmed you my phone number... feel free to call me.  

 

I thought I posted this comment a few days ago, but I don't see it here.  I was mistaken on my initial view of the femur.  I did not see the 2 x 4 in the jacket and thought that the jacket was the matrix.  Oops.  This will indeed N OT need an airscribe.  The jacket is pretty much femur shaped so there is little matrix on it.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by jpc

[Ptychodus04]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:46 PM, DokDeino said:

I'll be pouring in a blend of epoxy and ethanol to help consolidate what remains; applying more as I go. 

 

Don't do this unless there's no other option to save the specimen. You'll regret it. If the bone has fragmented, it is often better to deal with the individual pieces rather than consolidate the specimen into a femur shaped block of scraps and epoxy.

 

I've put together a bunch of bone puzzles as well as dealt with old epoxy covered specimens. I much prefer the puzzles! 

[FossilDAWG]

Just update your progress in this thread as you go.  The ability to edit is very time limited, so you won't be able to go back and edit earlier posts.  Unfortunately some people abused the edit function by deleting photos and other content.  The Fossil Forum is intended to function as a searchable repository for searchable information.  In your case for example, your experiences will provide an opportunity for others to read and learn.  When people would do things like ask for help with an ID and then later delete their initial post and photos, we would be left with everyone's responses but not the initial question or photos of the specimen in question, rendering the responses useless to later readers.  Consequently we restricted editing to a short time, useful for correcting spelling errors and such, but not permitting changes or deletions after that.

 

If you have a legitimate need to edit a post, contact a moderator or administrator and we can help with that.  As an example of a legitimate need, on occasion a fossil becomes the subject of a pending publication, and researchers ask that photos be withheld until the paper is published so priority isn't threatened.

 

Don

[jpc]

26 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

 

Don't do this unless there's no other option to save the specimen. You'll regret it. If the bone has fragmented, it is often better to deal with the individual pieces rather than consolidate the specimen into a femur shaped block of scraps and epoxy.

 

I've put together a bunch of bone puzzles as well as dealt with old epoxy covered specimens. I much prefer the puzzles! 

I agree 110%.

 

[DokDeino]

30 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

 

Don't do this unless there's no other option to save the specimen. You'll regret it. If the bone has fragmented, it is often better to deal with the individual pieces rather than consolidate the specimen into a femur shaped block of scraps and epoxy.

 

I've put together a bunch of bone puzzles as well as dealt with old epoxy covered specimens. I much prefer the puzzles! 

Kris, 

 

Good point there. We'll probably only pour epoxy into the specimen if it's essentially desintegrated. Having a femur-shaped block of dust and epoxy is better than just a pile of dust, y'know? 

[DokDeino]

39 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said:

Just update your progress in this thread as you go.  The ability to edit is very time limited, so you won't be able to go back and edit earlier posts.  Unfortunately some people abused the edit function by deleting photos and other content.  The Fossil Forum is intended to function as a searchable repository for searchable information.  In your case for example, your experiences will provide an opportunity for others to read and learn.  When people would do things like ask for help with an ID and then later delete their initial post and photos, we would be left with everyone's responses but not the initial question or photos of the specimen in question, rendering the responses useless to later readers.  Consequently we restricted editing to a short time, useful for correcting spelling errors and such, but not permitting changes or deletions after that.

 

If you have a legitimate need to edit a post, contact a moderator or administrator and we can help with that.  As an example of a legitimate need, on occasion a fossil becomes the subject of a pending publication, and researchers ask that photos be withheld until the paper is published so priority isn't threatened.

 

Don

Ah, understood. Thank you for explaining! 

[ParkerPaleo]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:44 PM, DokDeino said:

I'm stuck in Iowa, sadly. I don't know anyone in-person who's involved with the forum. Though my advisor does have experience with them. He's advising me to stick to simpler tools for now. 

Drive down to Kansas City and visit Science City at Union Station.  My father runs the prep lab there and they have many dinosaur jackets as well as other things.  They can certainly show you all the tools, techniques, etc.  

[jpc]

There is no reason to think that the bone would need this epoxy treatment.  Plaster jackets are good at holding bones together.  

[DokDeino]

1 hour ago, ParkerPaleo said:

Drive down to Kansas City and visit Science City at Union Station.  My father runs the prep lab there and they have many dinosaur jackets as well as other things.  They can certainly show you all the tools, techniques, etc.  

Hmmm, that could be fun someday. Sadly, I don't have much spare money for travelling, at the moment. 

[DokDeino]

Specimen update:

 

Yesterday I was given access to look over the specimens in-person, and took a few more pictures from different angles. I was also able to move and examine the mystery fossil and...well...it's no longer a mystery. 

 

Femur (F) Pictures:

F1 - Distal Condyles

F2 - Cranial view of Femoral Head

F3 - Dorsal view of Femoral Head

 

Humerus (H) Pictures:

H1 - Medial view of Left (?) Humerus

H2 - Same view, outlined in blue. Likely Deltopectoral Crest highlighted in Red

Perspective on the Humerus is not the best, my apologies. I was excited to learn what the specimen was. 

 

Comparing what I can see of the specimens to known Morrison Sauropods, it seems like I might have a Camarasaurus on my hands. Anyone familiar with Morrison Sauropods have any thoughts on that ID? 

 

 

[jpc]

There are at least 14 genera of sauropods in the Morrison.  I think it is a bit premature to ID it with all this plaster.  Do you have any reason to believe they are form the same animal.  A lot of Morrison sites are mixes of many bones form different animals.  I do agree, however on them being femur and humerus.  I assume the part in red is sticking out towards the camera a bit.  Again, call me if you want to talk about a strategy for these things.    I have a lot to offer, and I would hate to see them ruined..