Alvrr.0 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 The Ammonites of Madagascar are globally renowned, with numerous well-preserved genera and species. However, I've never seen one of these specimens in an unpolished state, as most are heavily polished. Does anyone have a photo of these fossils in a more "natural" condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 My understanding is that....... It's illegal to export certain (all ?? ) fossils from Madagascar But if they get polished, they can be called art. And that sort of legitimatizes their export 2 2 MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 There are small ones that occasionally get out unaltered. I've got a few. The big ones always seem to be sliced and polished, and many of the smaller unpolished ones have had their apertures squared off, apparently to satisfy the 'value added' rule for export. Very annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvrr.0 Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 8:12 PM, Wrangellian said: There are small ones that occasionally get out unaltered. I've got a few. The big ones always seem to be sliced and polished, and many of the smaller unpolished ones have had their apertures squared off, apparently to satisfy the 'value added' rule for export. Very annoying. You got a picture of the unaltered one? I want to see one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Perisphinctes are common and tend not to be polished MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Yoda said: Perisphinctes are common and tend not to be polished ...but you have to look carefully: I've seen them with the high points on the ribbing polished slightly - you don't notice until you look closely - and the aperture is squared off sometimes on those also. I wish those guys could be taught to properly prep an ammonite, and that should qualify as employing locals in adding value to exports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Alvrr.0 said: You got a picture of the unaltered one? I want to see one This is the pic I can find offhand... This one is unaltered. I have about 8 of these now, of 6 different species (I think), two of which I acquired recently at a local rock show, and two others last year from the same source. The seller had a little bin full of of them, none appeared to be altered. I wonder where he gets them... I didn't ask. The apertures never seem to be intact, but at least they aren't artificially squared off. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 17 hours ago, Yoda said: Perisphinctes are common and tend not to be polished This is a photo of mine Not a great specimen, and doesn’t look polished to me 3 MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 10:47 AM, Yoda said: This is a photo of mine Not a great specimen, and doesn’t look polished to me Check closely the outer ribs especially in this area - They might be slightly flattened but it's hard to tell from this pic. That might be all they did just to be able to say they did some work on it. I've seen others that are more obvious but a buyer might still miss it if they don't know to look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) This is most of my Madagascar ammos (the pearly ones and the Perisphinctes). I forgot that a few of them have squared-off apertures but otherwise all natural. The Perisphinctes in the upper left has a squared aperture but the ribbing thankfully has been left intact. I forgot to mention I also have a nice Douvilleiceras from Madag. that is basically unaltered except for a clumsy partial prep job. Edited March 29 by Wrangellian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPrice Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 The seller describes this as Rare Natural Untreated Madagascar specimen. Sure looks unpolished to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) On 3/28/2024 at 11:01 PM, SPrice said: The seller describes this as Rare Natural Untreated Madagascar specimen. Sure looks unpolished to me. Madag. has several ammonite-producing regions, and that looks like one of the Upper Permian ones from that country... I guess they are never split/polished like the Jurassic/Cretaceous ones are. Edited April 3 by Wrangellian stated incorrect age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPrice Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 5 hours ago, Wrangellian said: Madag. has several ammonite-producing regions, and that looks like one of the Lower Triassic ones from that country... I guess they are never split/polished like the Jurassic/Cretaceous ones are. This morning I was reading about those locations in the north and south of their country. The site I was reading said this about the Law for exporting fossils. "Madagascan law prohibits the exportation of all vertebrate fossils and invertebrate fossils must be processed in some way. For example, these Jurassic ammonites (Perisphinctes sp.) have been buffed, polished, and cut into pairs. Here's the site with the mapping of fossil locations. https://wholesale.entertheearth.com/fossil-map/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 On 3/29/2024 at 3:00 AM, Wrangellian said: This is most of my Madagascar ammos (the pearly ones and the Perisphinctes). I forgot that a few of them have squared-off apertures but otherwise all natural. The Perisphinctes in the upper left has a squared aperture but the ribbing thankfully has been left intact. I forgot to mention I also have a nice Douvilleiceras from Madag. that is basically unaltered except for a clumsy partial prep job. This is a nice selection 1 1 MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 As I recall, when ammonties first started coming out of Madagascar (late 80's - early 90's?), you could find a variety of Jurassic and Cretaceous genera plus at least one nautiloid genus. Over time, the variety decreased and most specimens were arriving polished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) On 4/1/2024 at 8:17 AM, SPrice said: This morning I was reading about those locations in the north and south of their country. The site I was reading said this about the Law for exporting fossils. "Madagascan law prohibits the exportation of all vertebrate fossils and invertebrate fossils must be processed in some way. For example, these Jurassic ammonites (Perisphinctes sp.) have been buffed, polished, and cut into pairs. Here's the site with the mapping of fossil locations. https://wholesale.entertheearth.com/fossil-map/ Thanks for this. I had not seen that site when I last went looking for info about my specimens. Nice to see a seller giving out this info, for once. I knew they had a 'value-added' law... In the past we Canadians had a fight over exporting raw logs, and the argument for processing the lumber here instead (aka "adding value"), to employ more Canadians before exporting, made sense, but I wish this concept would never be applied to fossils in any country! Isn't it enough that someone is employed in digging them up and prepping them out of the matrix? Who decided that they had to cut and polish or buff them too? Give them all an airscribe instead of a grinding wheel or Dremel. Fossils are not lumber. I think most end-consumers are not going to split or polish an ammonite themselves unless it's rather grotty on the outside, whereas probably every raw log is going to be cut into lumber eventually. Anyway, I'm just spinning my wheels at this point. I'll stop. BTW You may have already known but I gave the wrong age for the ammonite you showed above.. Apparently those are Upper Permian, not L. Triassic. Edited April 3 by Wrangellian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joaoarguello3 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I always see these types of ammonites unpolished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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