johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I found this femur yesterday on a river gravel bank here in SE Texas. It is worn and missing the femur head but the overall shape is there with wear at both ends. I've found others before but I don't recognize this one. I don't think it's cow, bison, horse, camelid, or deer but I could be wrong. I'll attach references to compare as to why considered eliminating those. I did run thru some images of carnivore which made me wanna go in that direction but I need more proof and I'll add my reasoning on that. Perhaps someone has something similar? Size is 13 inches in length or about 330 mm. Again missing the femur head and there's wear at the opposite end. I'm always happy for any identification even when it's just a cow, so don't worry about crushing hopes... I'm good with any ID. My apologies for the many photos. Perhaps one is better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Don't think it's cow, horse, or deer but it does look more similar to this big cat. Even in the Felidae of Rancho La Brea it's within the size listed. Maybe I'm reaching but I'm still checking all possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 50 minutes ago, jpc said: human? That would be really interesting but possible. Lots of gunslingers back in the cowboys days here in Texas. Here's an image of a human femur... I don't think it's that either tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 I dunno... the human one looks closer than the others ... so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Have you looked at llama/camel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 7 minutes ago, garyc said: Have you looked at llama/camel? Yes sir I saw this image earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) I could be wrong but I think it’s similar to vp-11682 or something similar… Edited April 23 by Randyw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/human-femur-a9c1f1a88b104c3fbfe975fa10b31b31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 I don't think it's human. Spin this 3d image around and I don't see the deep groove mine has 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 I agree definetly not human 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 I think I got it. Compare it to this black bear femur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 Here are better clearer pictures. I didn't clean it. And thanks to everyone who has looked into it for me. Twin babies at home have me super busy... I haven't had time to research the way I've wanted to. I appreciate the help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 @Randyw I found this while searching for a black bear femur. My bone size is 330 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 Here is a side by side with human. From the greater trochanter to the lesser trochanter in human seems to have more of a curvature to it. I could be wrong for sure, but it doesn't seem to curve towards the point on the lesser trochanter. Maybe it's just really worn there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 This is from a bear. 1 seems to run at the same angle. The location of 2 and the space between at 3 seems to be similar. I'm open to any thoughts or suggestions. If it is human and I'm open to that... I just want to be sure. Thanks again for your time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 (edited) 12 hours ago, Randyw said: I could be wrong but I think it’s similar to vp-11682 or something similar… The Vp-11682 belongs to an American lion. Here are other images from a seller online of one. I moved mine around in the same position as these and it has the same curves and to me looks so similar when i compare in hand... I have alot of wear at the distal end but I wonder? The seller's size is 12 and 5/8 inches and says most of it is there. Mine is at 13 inches. Still searching. The trochanteric fossa is deep in mine so I will keep searching for better views of this to consider or eliminate. Edited April 23 by johnnyvaldez7.jv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 @Shellseeker This was a thread from 2016... did you ever find out what this femur was from? Complete... this might have been around 13 inches I think? I couldn't help but notice how deep the trochanteric fossa is on yours as is mine. https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/65530-a-femur-story/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 6 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said: @Shellseeker This was a thread from 2016... did you ever find out what this femur was from? Complete... this might have been around 13 inches I think? I couldn't help but notice how deep the trochanteric fossa is on yours as is mine. https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/65530-a-femur-story/ Hey Johnny... Here is the thread you seek: My femur is Xenosmilus hudsonae.. Saber Cat !!!! Follow the link to the University of Florida MNH website... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 @garyc @fossilus In Jack's thread, I believe you both said you had a femur similar to his... did you ever identify it? @Shellseeker Thank you. That is a great find and a beautiful specimen! I'm still leaning bear on mine... I just want to be 100% sure and compare it to everything possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 17 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said: @garyc @fossilus In Jack's thread, I believe you both said you had a femur similar to his... did you ever identify it? @Shellseeker Thank you. That is a great find and a beautiful specimen! I'm still leaning bear on mine... I just want to be 100% sure and compare it to everything possible. @johnnyvaldez7.jv I’m currently in Vegas. When I get home and unpickle my brain and liver I’ll load some pictures of a couple femurs I have and what I think they are 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 I think I've narrowed down my choices. John A. Moretti, PhD candidate, UT Jackson School of Geosciences in Austin, who has helped me identify some of my finds replied to my email today about my femur. I told him a black bear femur overlapped size-wise with human, but I couldn't make that human comparison match up as much as I could with that of a black bear. But, with a deep trochanteric fossa... it seemed more like the sabercat that Jack has, and wondered if there were any other big cat possibilities? I'm one step closer. Hey Johnny, I agree and, to me, this looks like a large felid or small ursid. The distal epiphysis and the proximal end (missing the unfused proximal epiphysis) are consistent with a large carnivoran and not with anything else. The long, straight form of the femur is similar to human but both ends are quite differently shaped. Good find! Thanks for sharing! John 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 Here's another email received today. Hi Johnny, Thank you for pulling me away from doing paperwork to identify a bone... I needed it! 🙂 Everything about the bone looks like ursid to me, and not felid. You do have to consider the possibility that it could be either Ursus or Tremarctos based on the size. These bears would have overlapped in size during the Pleistocene. Best, Blaine Blaine W. Schubert, PhD Executive Director, Center of Excellence in Paleontology Director, Gray Fossil Site & Museum Professor, Dept. of Geosciences East Tennessee State University 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Hey @johnnyvaldez7.jv, sorry I just saw this thread now. I can pretty definitely tell you it is not a human. See the comparison below (human on the right). As I believe you already noted the deep fossa is very different in yours vs. the human as well as other features here at the proximal end. Also a human femur has more of a curve to the overall shape than yours does. I think you are on the right track with bear of some sort as @Randyw suggested a couple of days ago.. Here is the page out of Gilberts Mammalian Osteology showing a black bear and a grizzly bear. I see a lot of similarities with the Black Bear. Compare the distal end. Very nice find! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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