Museum In Trouble Urgent And Yes This Will Make You Sick.

[jason longboard]

I understand your angle on this and it is a similar situation as Bob also died without a will. He thought he was going to live longer too. It led to a complication different from your experience though.

Yes, Bob would've wanted the collection to kept together but you don't know his devotion to his wife. As you read in the article for which you provided a link, Mary is suffering some financial hardship partly due to her medical problem and partly due to a legal bill that grew over the past three-plus years. The last thing Bob would've wanted and I mean THE last thing, was for her to worry about money or anything.

I met Bob and Mary around the time they got married in 1993. He had gone through some tough times prior but Mary changed his life. They moved into a new house. He started taking better care of himself. He was finding levels of happiness beyond what fossils could bring him and I believe the changes he made did extend his life at least a few - maybe several years - so we can all thank Mary for that.

Since its beginning, Bob understood the museum's future was uncertain. He knew that despite all his willpower and effort the museum could still fail. Bakersfield might not be a big enough city to support one more museum and it might not be big/flashy enough to attract crowds from two hours away (the L.A. area) or farther. He made it clear that the fossils were only on loan to the museum (he had at least one sign on a wall and numerous labels stating so) to avoid a situation where possession of the specimens was left in question in case it did close down.

I understand how people feel about the loss of the fossils. It was a great display and some of them are unique and undocumented. I hope at least some of the specimens find their way back but forgive me if I also hope Mary makes enough money to cover her bills. She truly mourned the loss of Bob and dealt with various uncertainties, only recently starting to move on with her life. If you knew how nice a person she is, and how hard she fell and how she had to field calls from vultures right after, you might have a different opinion.

Well I understand all of that as well.However I have heard other rumors of hear say that are different, while hoping none are true, you just never know. Rumors are just that though, rumors and I think really have no place on here. I agree with that. So, it seems a good handful of conflicting facts are going around, so I think Im just going to focus now on what to do now.

[Just Bob]

My father didnt expect to die 7 years ago in a motor bike crash. He had no will yet. My father did everything in the world he could do for my sister and I. Us not getting a dime other than some of his clothing and some things like his keyboard and tennis rackets and such. My stepmother kept every penny of the house sale and everything else. I was jobless and an emotional mess, yet got no offer for a cent. Im just saying, when someone dies, and you know darn well what they would have wanted, cowboy up.

Thats just me though, so not trying to offend anyone.

Jason

Just wanted to say Jason that my wife works for a insurance company and hears stories like that all the time, especially when it comes to stepparents, and some stories are very bad, like the stepmother trying to sell the family heirlooms back to the family after the death of the father. Another bad one was family property own by the mother going to the stepfather after her death, he told the stepchildren that he would give it to them after his death, after his death it turned out that he sold it and left the money to his children. It was property that was in the family for like 150 years or something. She has told me story after story like these. Please people, don't forget your wills or your life insurance for that matter.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Just Bob

[FossilForKids]

Well I understand all of that as well. Though even today I heard some things from some of Bobs old friends while on a dig, about their relationship that dont fit a lot of what you just said too. So, it seems a good handful of conflicting facts are going around, so I think Im just going to focus now on what to do now.

Jason,

If you heard anything about Bob and Mary other than they were devoted to each other then I would say the source is no friend of Bob's and most likely very bitter about the sale. I spent many, many hours digging beside Bob and Mary was never far from his mind. Like all couples and relationships I'm sure they had there ups and downs but I hope that some day I can feel about someone the way Bob felt about Mary. Yes he had a passion for his digging and dream where he would have liked to see the museum go but those were superceded by his love of Mary. The museum and people of Bakersfield was blessed by the charity of Bob and Mary Ernst. Now it's time for them to step up to the plate, both the community and museum,and do there part to secure these treasures through fund raising and donations. They had 3 years to prepare for this and chose not to. That is the real tragedy here. For those that are critical of Mary or question her intentions I suggest they sell off some of their major assets (house, car, etc...)to save the museum. It's easy to suggest other people make great sacrifices during times of hardship. It's quite the other thing to actually do it yourself. Mary is trying to move forward after a great loss in her life......I suggest the museum does the same.

John O'Brien FFK

Edited August 29, 2010 by Auspex

[frozen_turkey]

Well there isnt much you can do. The owner has the right to do what ever he wants with his collection.

[Boesse]

I guess I was never aware that the BVMNH was always a private museum; which is too bad, because some researchers have now made the mistake of publishing on fossil specimens from this museum, and now their research is fundamentally untestable because the museum is going under. As a scientist, aside from the loss of the specimens themselves, this is the worst side effect of these fossils being sold. I can only hope that new material can be collected from the bonebed to replace the fossils.

This is an extremely useful example of why fossils should be donated to federal repositories and not private museums (I recognize certain private museums such as the American MNH are natural exceptions to this rule).

Bobby

[jason longboard]

Jason,

If you heard anything about Bob and Mary other than they were devoted to each other then I would say the source is no friend of Bob's and most likely very bitter about the sale. I spent many, many hours digging beside Bob and Mary was never far from his mind. Like all couples and relationships I'm sure they had there ups and downs but I hope that some day I can feel about someone the way Bob felt about Mary. Yes he had a passion for his digging and dream where he would have liked to see the museum go but those were superceded by his love of Mary. The museum and people of Bakersfield was blessed by the charity of Bob and Mary Ernst. Now it's time for them to step up to the plate, both the community and museum,and do there part to secure these treasures through fund raising and donations. They had 3 years to prepare for this and chose not to. That is the real tragedy here. For those that are critical of Mary or question her intentions I suggest they sell off some of their major assets (house, car, etc...)to save the museum. It's easy to suggest other people make great sacrifices during times of hardship. It's quite the other thing to actually do it yourself. Mary is trying to move forward after a great loss in her life......I suggest the museum does the same.

John O'Brien FFK

Well I know my source, and I dont believe everything everyone tells me either. He, the museum, you or whomever. After giving this a lot of thought, I agree that their relationship really has no place on here anyway and it was never my intention to cause any hurt or dissention. I truly hope they shared every happiness and it sounds like they did.. I would only wish the best for his family while also hoping something good for the museum.

I will be glad to speak of the museum and what can be done now. As far as who caused it here,other than learning from mistakes, I dont want to talk about their personal lives outside the museum anymore. I am hoping we can get back on topic and move forward.

So very much respect to you guys in this thread. All of you who care, everyone who knew them or not who either wanted to vent or just provide ideas. Thank you everyone for your concern whether it sounds like what I want to happen or not, at least it shows in one way or another we all care about a situation that hits the world of fossils, science history and our passion.

[isurus90064]

Hello JL,

With all due respect, you can't make blanket statements on a public forum about the owner of the BVNHM fossils and not expect someone closer to the facts to reply to you. You also can't walk into a museum with empty display cases and assume that the owner can't need that much money. That's a bit of a knee jerk response as is the title of this topic. That's aside from the fact that it seems like it's designed to be inflammatory. Maybe it's best not to jump to conclusions until all the fact are in.

Siteseer is one of the very few people close to the Ernst family. Bob had very few close friends .. many of Bob's "friends" readily came out of the wood works (many of whom are associated with the museum) after Bob passed away. All had opinions on what to do with the fossils and where they should go. To my knowledge none of them (with the exception of one) have donated or loaned any specimens to the museum. That just seems awfully convenient. If that changes in the future I will certainly concede that statement and express appreciation in public.

If it is private ownership (and therefore control) of fossils you have a problem with then that is more of a philosophical argument (and a much bigger one I might add) and I can't comment on that, although I suspect that you too maintain a private collection yourself.

Regarding a true solution, Bobby is right in stating that public institutions like federal repositories are free from complications although there is a laundry list of other problems that plague these organizations (bureaucracy and funding, or rather lack thereof, etc., etc.). The BV museum on the other hand is a museum full of hobbyists who just saw their weekend occupation evaporate. Bob always hoped for them to take their responsibilities more seriously by pursuing fund raising as one of their primary tasks.

Regards, Marcel.

[jason longboard]

Hello JL,

With all due respect, you can't make blanket statements on a public forum about the owner of the BVNHM fossils and not expect someone closer to the facts to reply to you. You also can't walk into a museum with empty display cases and assume that the owner can't need that much money. That's a bit of a knee jerk response as is the title of this topic. That's aside from the fact that it seems like it's designed to be inflammatory. Maybe it's best not to jump to conclusions until all the fact are in.

Siteseer is one of the very few people close to the Ernst family. Bob had very few close friends .. many of Bob's "friends" readily came out of the wood works (many of whom are associated with the museum) after Bob passed away. All had opinions on what to do with the fossils and where they should go. To my knowledge none of them (with the exception of one) have donated or loaned any specimens to the museum. That just seems awfully convenient. If that changes in the future I will certainly concede that statement and express appreciation in public.

If it is private ownership (and therefore control) of fossils you have a problem with then that is more of a philosophical argument (and a much bigger one I might add) and I can't comment on that, although I suspect that you too maintain a private collection yourself.

Regarding a true solution, Bobby is right in stating that public institutions like federal repositories are free from complications although there is a laundry list of other problems that plague these organizations (bureaucracy and funding, or rather lack thereof, etc., etc.). The BV museum on the other hand is a museum full of hobbyists who just saw their weekend occupation evaporate. Bob always hoped for them to take their responsibilities more seriously by pursuing fund raising as one of their primary tasks.

Regards, Marcel.

Thanks for all the subtle insults. Should have been PMd.

[isurus90064]

Hello Jason,

None of what I said was meant to be insulting, not even subtly. If it did I sincerely apologize. No hard feelings whatsoever and if at any point you'd like to talk shop (fossils, fossil hunting etc.), let me know.

Happy hunting.

[FossilForKids]

Thanks for all the subtle insults. Should have been PMd.

Marcel is a class act. He stated facts not insults. Your passion is admirable Jason but some of your initial statements were certainly judgemental and not based on fact. If I made similar statements about someone you were close to and you felt I was inaccurate I'm sure you would have pointed it out.

I will be back to dig across from Harts's park in Oct. Maybe we can get together and dig sometime.

Take Care,

John

[jason longboard]

First of all, I'm via cell phone and that means this will be even sloppier than my normal slop. Next, let me somehow clarify by saying all of what I stated in any post were just things other ppl from bobs life or around it have told me. I will stand proud saying that none of it may be true, the main point I was trying to get out to others is things are always deeper than they appear to be. Mary and her family are in my prayers as much as anyone else. I never meant for the things I said are rumored to be things takin as facts. If anyone new are reading this, please know all of my info is hear say just things I was pointing out that might be possibilities. I hope the best for mary and the fossils, its a sensetive subject. Sorry if I relayed things poorly, I am much better in person and almost never have an issue with anyone unless they are just impossible. Like I said, I respect all of you and to the last 2 posts, thank you for the kind words and please know my heart is in the right spot I'm just having trouble I think explaining it.

[jason longboard]

Wow, I'm at home now and just read my post I typed from my cell phone earlier. I either need to shrink my thumbs or buy a bigger Blackberry. Sorry you guys had to read that lol.

Take care all

Jason

[Roz]

I either need to shrink my thumbs or buy a bigger Blackberry.

Take care all

Jason

If you can't figure out how to shrink your thumbs,

then buy the larger Blackberry and please send me the old one....

[Guest BOHUNTER]

I fyou want your personal or real property to stay in your family then you better make sure your paperwork is in order and legit. Nothing worse than a derlic son or daughter getting their hands on something you worked for so long then in an instant selling this human achievement for 40 bucks and its gone within seconds.

Trusts, wills, donations, whatever.... if you do not direct your property then the court or those derlics will.

Nothing worse than seeing a lifetime of work in the hands of a bum!

I "Donated" an artifact when I was in High School to our Historical Museum.... about a year before it burned to the ground the chariman called me and asked if I wanted it back... I wanted it real badly back! So I recovered the item again... and if not it would have been lost in the museum. So be careful about giving ownership away...

I like my toys!

STEVE

[siteseer]

I see that you are the new guy and you're trying to get a handle on a situation in which you have an interest. However, it's one thing to question a museum's or person's decisions, but it's highly inappropriate to pass on rumors about a couple's relationship - even more so since one of them is deceased. That went over the line in my book if not this forum's rules of conduct. You apologized though, so I'm cooling off and not holding it against you. I was fuming yesterday and made a point of not posting anything in this thread.

I can understand trying to say something in a post and it not coming out right too. Sometimes, I send posts and then realize I left something out (great to have that edit option) or I'm ready to send and it sounds unclear on the re-read so I just dump it even if I spent an hour writing it.

Also, I can understand sticking up for your friend.

First of all, I'm via cell phone and that means this will be even sloppier than my normal slop. Next, let me somehow clarify by saying all of what I stated in any post were just things other ppl from bobs life or around it have told me. I will stand proud saying that none of it may be true, the main point I was trying to get out to others is things are always deeper than they appear to be. Mary and her family are in my prayers as much as anyone else. I never meant for the things I said are rumored to be things takin as facts. If anyone new are reading this, please know all of my info is hear say just things I was pointing out that might be possibilities. I hope the best for mary and the fossils, its a sensetive subject. Sorry if I relayed things poorly, I am much better in person and almost never have an issue with anyone unless they are just impossible. Like I said, I respect all of you and to the last 2 posts, thank you for the kind words and please know my heart is in the right spot I'm just having trouble I think explaining it.

[jason longboard]

I see that you are the new guy and you're trying to get a handle on a situation in which you have an interest. However, it's one thing to question a museum's or person's decisions, but it's highly inappropriate to pass on rumors about a couple's relationship - even more so since one of them is deceased. That went over the line in my book if not this forum's rules of conduct. You apologized though, so I'm cooling off and not holding it against you. I was fuming yesterday and made a point of not posting anything in this thread.

I can understand trying to say something in a post and it not coming out right too. Sometimes, I send posts and then realize I left something out (great to have that edit option) or I'm ready to send and it sounds unclear on the re-read so I just dump it even if I spent an hour writing it.

Also, I can understand sticking up for your friend.

Why didnt you just PM me this instead of posting it? I was apologizing for not making things clear, that Im not saying these things are true, that its things that are being said by others and for us to know their can be more going on than we know, but I dont know what and dont just believe everything I hear. In any case I agree it doesn't have a place on here that is why I have tried to clear that up.

Man, the thread was just getting back on track. I would have just PMd this but I feel since everyone read it I gotta keep explaining myself.

Look, I wasnt clear before. Now you all know how I feel. None of you need anything from me. All I do is try to help others, make them laugh, feel good about themselves, put myself in others shoes and try to see things from all sides. Do we think everyone can refrain from publicly scolding me for something Ive already explained and cleared up? I hold no hard feelings, I just hope we can move forward in the spirit of this fossil community.

Ive been through way to much in my life to deal with this right now and I would really like to enjoy these forums and the info provided by the good ppl here.

[jason longboard]

If you can't figure out how to shrink your thumbs,

then buy the larger Blackberry and please send me the old one....

Maybe we can trade a few things, Im sure youve got things a need, I mean want. WHo am I kidding, nobody would choose a cell phone over a fossil, even coprolite.

[Crinoid Queen]

I wish I could help but I dont have any shark teeth. That is really to bad to hear about that. I hope you guys can get all of ur displays back.

[jason longboard]

I wish I could help but I dont have any shark teeth. That is really to bad to hear about that. I hope you guys can get all of ur displays back.

Im hoping at this point that Mary gets what she needs and the museum gets at least enough back to please most of us. Its all very touchy. However my heart wants everyone somehow to work together on this, I know its still hard to please evryone at the same time.

Hey, Coprolite Happens

Edited September 2, 2010 by jason longboard

[Dare2Dream]

Im hoping at this point that Mary gets what she needs and the museum gets at least enough back to please most of us. Its all very touchy. However my heart wants everyone somehow to work together on this, I know its still hard to please evryone at the same time.

Hey, Coprolite Happens

I, for one, really appreciate you posting here and caring about this issue. Some people are becoming overly sensitive about it. Nothing wrong with discussing this issue openly as it affects all of us one way or another. I've had a chance to meet Bob and enjoy his digs a few times as well as visit the museum a couple of times. It is a shame that people in Bakersfield and the city can not financially muster up the courage to support their city's fossil heritage. Ultimately the people in Bakersfield are the ones who need to pool funds to purchase these fossils and keep this treasure in their city instead of selfishly expecting one person (Mary) to do so for them, and that is even if Mary didn't have a critical need for funds.

Thanks again for posting about it, very much appreciate and enjoy all your Bakersfield posts. Everyone else needs to chill out, no need to get overly emotional about it.