Foshunter Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 I have an partial articulated Ptychodus Mammillaris tooth plate that has a slight problem. The plate is upside down with the roots exposed. Articulated mouth plates of any Ptychodus species are quite uncommon. The matrix shows the imprint of missing teeth which I would like to replicate and add to the teeth when they are exposed. I have been messaging xiphactinus, as everyone will agree he has completed some amazing reconstruction and is about to embark on a new project, to ask for his expertise. Bringing the teeth to the surface won't be a big problem but the replication, from suggestions by xiphactinus, of making a plaster cast is simple enough but what to use to prevent the plaster from adhering to the limestone might be. I don't think there will be many chances to get it right before the original impressions are damaged, so that will be the next research project before I can begin.--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 um, i really like it like it is. it's real. it's unique. it's real unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Eaton Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 If it were me, I'd Email Shawn Hamm and maybe Kenshu Shimada, Mike Everhart, or Roger Farrish. You have an amazing find!!! I dream about finding a Ptychodus plate like that some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Great fossil, Tom. Did you find it yourself? The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I have seen prep people use latex to make "texture patches" for when they are restoring parts of bones and they want the restored part to not only look the same shape but also feel the same (realistically extending a natural crack or replicating rugosities or natural wear). They apply the patches while the putty is still soft. I wouldn't use plaster in any case. I think most of the pro cast-makers use a small number of resins now. There was an episode of "Dirty Jobs" that visited "Skulls Unlimited." I think that show just talked about how they clean skulls and bones before they cast them but you can try contacting the company to get some expert advice. You'll probably set some here too. I have an partial articulated Ptychodus Mammillaris tooth plate that has a slight problem. The plate is upside down with the roots exposed. Articulated mouth plates of any Ptychodus species are quite uncommon. The matrix shows the imprint of missing teeth which I would like to replicate and add to the teeth when they are exposed. I have been messaging xiphactinus, as everyone will agree he has completed some amazing reconstruction and is about to embark on a new project, to ask for his expertise. Bringing the teeth to the surface won't be a big problem but the replication, from suggestions by xiphactinus, of making a plaster cast is simple enough but what to use to prevent the plaster from adhering to the limestone might be. I don't think there will be many chances to get it right before the original impressions are damaged, so that will be the next research project before I can begin.--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 The shapes of the missing teeth can clearly be seen in the rock and as you looking at the back of the specimen, you can also note how they fit together 'jigsaw like' creating the correct shape at the back.... depending on the quality of reproduction you require.... 1... you could cast the shape of the missing teeth straight from the rock using a putty to form an edge prior to casting making little moulds.... the backs of the teeth could be manufactured afterwards... 2... maybe take fine resin copies of the nearest tooth to the missing teeth demonstrating the same shape....If you notice one tooth could be used in 2 places here and there.... If you look on Youtube there are loads of videos on moulding and casting with resin producing excellent results and the size of stuff your doing it wouldnt cost you too much either.... What are you thinking of 'remounting' them on.... maybe temporary number them all as well and taking plenty photos before you start to take it apart.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 i would suggest you use a mold release agent, there are several available, and fill in the missing teeth with Bondo (automotive body filler) it will be more durable than plaster and will be easier to preserve the fine details of the teeth. Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefootgirl Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Wow, Wow, Wow! Did you find that? In formal logic, a contradiction is the signal of defeat: but in the evolution of real knowledge, it marks the first step in progress toward victory. Alfred North Whithead 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 i would suggest you use a mold release agent, there are several available, and fill in the missing teeth with Bondo (automotive body filler) it will be more durable than plaster and will be easier to preserve the fine details of the teeth. Brock Good call! Bondo would be much better than plaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Bondo is for cars... Epoxy Putty is for fossils. If this was my fossil, I would use Magic Scuplt... mix some up and stuff it into those tooth negatives. Then prep the whole thing from the other side. Maybe even mix up some putty and some powdered matrix and cover the whole back of this thing, that way after you have prepped it to expose the business end of the teeth, they will still be embedded in a matrix-like product. Google Magic sculpt. you can buy pretty small quantities. Also Aves Products (I think) makes an epoxy that is colored. you could buy a small qty colored like your matrix. good luck. we all want to see the final product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted September 29, 2010 Author Share Posted September 29, 2010 Bondo is for cars... Epoxy Putty is for fossils. If this was my fossil, I would use Magic Scuplt... mix some up and stuff it into those tooth negatives. Then prep the whole thing from the other side. Maybe even mix up some putty and some powdered matrix and cover the whole back of this thing, that way after you have prepped it to expose the business end of the teeth, they will still be embedded in a matrix-like product. Google Magic sculpt. you can buy pretty small quantities. Also Aves Products (I think) makes an epoxy that is colored. you could buy a small qty colored like your matrix. good luck. we all want to see the final product. Like the suggestion, sounds like working with this product isn't your first rodeo.--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Bondo is for cars... Epoxy Putty is for fossils. If this was my fossil, I would use Magic Scuplt... mix some up and stuff it into those tooth negatives. Then prep the whole thing from the other side. Maybe even mix up some putty and some powdered matrix and cover the whole back of this thing, that way after you have prepped it to expose the business end of the teeth, they will still be embedded in a matrix-like product. Google Magic sculpt. you can buy pretty small quantities. Also Aves Products (I think) makes an epoxy that is colored. you could buy a small qty colored like your matrix. good luck. we all want to see the final product. I'll have to check out Magic Sculpt. Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Bondo is for cars... Epoxy Putty is for fossils. If this was my fossil, I would use Magic Scuplt... mix some up and stuff it into those tooth negatives. Then prep the whole thing from the other side. Maybe even mix up some putty and some powdered matrix and cover the whole back of this thing, that way after you have prepped it to expose the business end of the teeth, they will still be embedded in a matrix-like product. Google Magic sculpt. you can buy pretty small quantities. Also Aves Products (I think) makes an epoxy that is colored. you could buy a small qty colored like your matrix. good luck. we all want to see the final product. i agree that epoxy is stronger, but it is very very hard to remove. and any museum curator will tell yo that reversability is a must. bondo can easily be removed without damaging the fossil if every needed. epoxy will certainly require much more effort and a high probability to damage the specimen. i have used bondo on everything from restoring free-standing trilobite spines to piecing back together 7 foot sauropod femurs and never have had a problem with it. (the only inconvieniece is that the grain size is slightly larger than the epoxy so resto on tiny fossils involved another step to mask the graininess). you can also color bondo with powdered morter colorants. i make jet black all the time. brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 (edited) You should contact Shawn Hamm. He has done the most extensive work with Ptychodus, Ptychodus dental reconstructions and techniques, Ptychodus feeding habits, as well as Ptychodus skeletal reconstruction (His current project). His Masters thesis greatly redescribed the various Ptychodus species. His thesis includes the mathmatics you can use to determine the exact location of a given tooth in the dentition. It makes things much easier. If you do not know how to get hold of Shawn, send me a message and Ill give you his email address and phone number. Edited September 29, 2010 by Boneman007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted September 29, 2010 Author Share Posted September 29, 2010 You should contact Shawn Hamm. He has done the most extensive work with Ptychodus, Ptychodus dental reconstructions and techniques, Ptychodus feeding habits, as well as Ptychodus skeletal reconstruction (His current project). His Masters thesis greatly redescribed the various Ptychodus species. His thesis includes the mathmatics you can use to determine the exact location of a given tooth in the dentition. It makes things much easier. If you do not know how to get hold of Shawn, send me a message and Ill give you his email address and phone number. Thanks for the offer, when I first acquired the plate I contacted Shawn about it.--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Bondo might be okay for something small but I have heard someone say that it shrinks over time, distorting contours of larger specimens. Magic-Sculpt is the go-to product for a few people I know. i agree that epoxy is stronger, but it is very very hard to remove. and any museum curator will tell yo that reversability is a must. bondo can easily be removed without damaging the fossil if every needed. epoxy will certainly require much more effort and a high probability to damage the specimen. i have used bondo on everything from restoring free-standing trilobite spines to piecing back together 7 foot sauropod femurs and never have had a problem with it. (the only inconvieniece is that the grain size is slightly larger than the epoxy so resto on tiny fossils involved another step to mask the graininess). you can also color bondo with powdered morter colorants. i make jet black all the time. brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farfarawy Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 very nice fossil~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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