Foshunter Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 From the shape of these dentures, believe a better name than Herring should have been given to this hunter. These teeth are not un-common in the Sulphur River but complete examples that don't have broken tips only make about 50% of what is found. This fish with a mouth full of pointy is called Enchodus petrosus, I believe the teeth bottom right are the anterior examples or could be from another Enchodus species, if anyone has any info. please let me know--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diplotomodon Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Yep, those are Enchodus. Up in New Jersey I've never heard them described as herrings though---more like saber-toothed salmon. Different regions call them different things. That's the beauty of Latin names What a wonderful menagerie! Who would believe that such as register lay buried in the strata? To open the leaves, to unroll the papyrus, has been an intensely interesting though difficult work, having all the excitement and marvelous development of a romance. And yet the volume is only partly read. Many a new page I fancy will yet be opened. -- Edward Hitchcock, 1858 Formerly known on the forum as Crimsonraptor @Diplotomodon on Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 That is quite a haul of good teeth. As stated, most of the ones I find are broken. The best I have ever found where in Mississippi, still had black "enamel" on them. Sorry I can't help you with more specific IDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 From the shape of these dentures, believe a better name than Herring should have been given to this hunter. These teeth are not un-common in the Sulphur River but complete examples that don't have broken tips only make about 50% of what is found. This fish with a mouth full of pointy is called Enchodus petrosus, I believe the teeth bottom right are the anterior examples or could be from another Enchodus species, if anyone has any info. please let me know--Tom Girard Case in his book, A PICTORIAL GUIDE TO FOSSILS, provides two pages of illustrations (of E. ferox from NJ). Apparently, the teeth with inflated chunks of bone at the root are from the palatine or dentary bone. Those teeth which separate cleanly are mandibular or maxillary teeth. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) In the attempt to try to create a common name for an extinct fish sometimes the wrong family tree is chosen. Enchodus, neither a salmon nor a herring, has only very distant modern relatives (the lizardfishes, deepwater animals still awaiting stardom on "Animal Planet"). Enchodus died out at the end of the Cretaceous and none of its close relatives (other genera of the family, Enchodontidae) nor other related families of the same suborder are known to have survived beyond the Eocene. However, there was a species of "sabertoothed salmon" that was a true salmon. It was described as Smilodonichthys rostratus before it was restudied and the genus was deemed a junior synonym of the modern genus, Oncorhynchus. O. rostratus was twice the size of the largest Pacific salmon we know today. It is called the sabertoothed salmon because the males had two oversized teeth (sometimes called "breeder fangs") in the upper jaw which do not appear to be used in attacking prey but used in mating displays (similar to modern species). I've seen at least one of these teeth (uncommon finds) from a Pliocene marine site in California - a one inch tooth in matrix. It is better known from river deposits in association with land mammals. You can read more about the sabertoothed salmon in "Neptune's Ark" by David Rains Wallace. It's a really good popular book on the evolution of marine vertebrates along the Pacific coast of North America. Yep, those are Enchodus. Up in New Jersey I've never heard them described as herrings though---more like saber-toothed salmon. Different regions call them different things. That's the beauty of Latin names Edited June 7, 2011 by siteseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raff Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Girard Case in his book, A PICTORIAL GUIDE TO FOSSILS, provides two pages of illustrations (of E. ferox from NJ). Apparently, the teeth with inflated chunks of bone at the root are from the palatine or dentary bone. Those teeth which separate cleanly are mandibular or maxillary teeth. These teeth (E. ferox) are very similar to Enchodus lybicus teeth from Morocco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsofnj Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hi Tom, I would venture to guess that the teeth in question are more likely Enchodus gladiolus rather than Enchodus ferox or possibly a mixture of both. E ferox has very fine serrations on the cutting edge and at least in my area are very uncommon. Otherwise the teeth of the two species are virtually identical. You will need some sort of magnification to spot the serrations they are so fine. John It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossil_alan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 nice collection you have there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDOTB Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I have found many of these (encodus) including large pieces of jaw section which I thought were awesome until Obsessed1 showed me a few jaw pieces he has which put mine to shame. Im unfortunately 12000 miles away from my collection right now, but maybe you could get him to post a picture or two of his. I however do not know the species of the ones I have found. Many of them are worn but I will have to take a closer look at the better ones to see if I can make a determination. When I first got started fossil hunting, I used to find them, and not knowing what they were, threw them back into the creek. What a fool I was back then! DO, or do not. There is no try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 I have found many of these (encodus) including large pieces of jaw section which I thought were awesome until Obsessed1 showed me a few jaw pieces he has which put mine to shame. Im unfortunately 12000 miles away from my collection right now, but maybe you could get him to post a picture or two of his. I however do not know the species of the ones I have found. Many of them are worn but I will have to take a closer look at the better ones to see if I can make a determination. When I first got started fossil hunting, I used to find them, and not knowing what they were, threw them back into the creek. What a fool I was back then! Would very much like to see what he has--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Cool stackof teeth. Probably the most common (after sharks) fish fossil found in E. N. Carolina. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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