kauffy Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Are these turtle claws? from a pleistocene fissure in Marion Co. Any help would be great! "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 anyone have any ideas? "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Not that I would know, but they do strongly resemble photos I've seen of that were labeled as turtle claws. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 hmm yeah ive seen some turtle claws that do resemble similar characteristics i just want a definative opinion... how are you ID'ing bird claws auspex? i have a ton of them and i dont have a clue what they are! "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 how are you ID'ing bird claws auspex? i have a ton of them and i dont have a clue what they are! Gimme. Are they claws, or claw cores? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 claw cores.....theres only 1-2 which are a bit different...they have slightly more curve (like a bird of prey) although they are quite small...hmm i will get some pics...heres a mass pic of a bunch of claws so you can see what they look like any ideas? "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 WOW! Are you picking those out of that microfossil "dirt"? The pleistocene fissure-fill material? Small, strongly curves ones are passerine (perching birds) or woodpecker/nuthatch. Bigger, flatter ones are apt to be cormorant/anhinga or duck. Somewhere there's a table that uses radius-to-length ratios to predict what niche the bird in question filled. Feduccia used it to explore the possible lifestyles of Cretaceous birds, and even Archaeopteryx. The only comparative specimen collection I've seen is from Bone Clones; they're reproductions of modern bird claws (in the sheath, not cores). Here's their set: "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 yep these are coming from the micro fissure stuff....i think most are passerine...i think 2 may be from a small hawk but its a long stretch...they dont really have that much curve....perhaps a perching bird such as a shrike or something? not sure "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 this is what i was thinking.... see the comparisons with a bird of prey...perhaps these claws i have are from a bird like a shrike? do you think this is possible? "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 It's really, really hard to say. All we have to work with are claw cores. While it is possible to infer the general design of the sheath, and to judge the strength of "grip" by the proportions of the tendon attachment "lever", about all that can tell us is how the bird made a living. Obviously, size counts too; just remember that the core is smaller than the sheath it supports, by a ratio that varies quite a lot. I would love to be able to key them out (and there are probably people that can), but family-level is the best guess I can hope to make. (The Shrike/Kestrel comparason is a great example of convergent evolution). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I SOLVED THE MYSTERY! well i seem to be discovering a lot about these unknowns, i have been doing a bit of research and i have come to a relativley (now i say relativley) certain conclusion that these are in fact Mole Claws (Scolopus)!! Anyone think differently? Here are some links with pics, what do you think? http://www.themoleman.com/Albino2.jpg http ://www.discoverlife.org/im/I_RB/0000/3...cus,I_RB43.jpg As you can see by this picture the back of the claw is obviously covered in flesh but the structure, shape, and size are nearly identicle "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Well Kauffy i thought that they were turtle claws as well but now i am not sure. i just looked at my box turtle skeleton and i would hae to agree that they belong to a mole. thanks for helping me to correct my mistake. Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Well Kauffy i thought that they were turtle claws as well but now i am not sure. i just looked at my box turtle skeleton and i would hae to agree that they belong to a mole. thanks for helping me to correct my mistake.Brock My mistake too Brock! i will continue to post up different things as I identify them. You wouldnt happen to have identifyed any of the mouse teeth? im completly stuck with them. Cheers "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Did a little Googling, and I have to conclude that mole fossils are much rarer than bird fossils. Good job! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Did a little Googling, and I have to conclude that mole fossils are much rarer than bird fossils. Good job! Im sure, who has ever heard of Mole fossils before! awesome, i think i have one of the hind leg claws too, i will post a pic soon.. "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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