JGS Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I have never seen the crab balls before and have been trying to research them because I think they are so cool. Does anyone know if they can be found in Wyoming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) I believe the crab concretions are found in Oregon and Washington states. Don't think I've ever heard of them from Wyoming. Regards, Edited July 21, 2011 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGS Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 I kinda didn't think so but one can always hope. I guess my next vacation will be the upper west coast somewhere. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think that crab concretions can be found in a lot of other places too, like Alabama and even in New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Oh, and apparently they have them in Alabama, too. Regards, Edit - OOps, Gus beat me to it! Edited July 21, 2011 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Crab fossils seem to occur in concretions in lots of places, though there are relatively few places where such fossils are common. Most of the ones you will see in this forum, and for sale (e.g. ebay) are of Oligocene or younger age, and from Washington and Oregon. Similar fossils occur on Vancouver Island, but there Cretaceous crabs are found at more accessible localities, and the Eocene/Oligocene/Miocene localities are mostly at hard to reach (or illegal-eg Pacific Rim National Park) localities on the west coast of the island. I've seen crab concretions from California too. The Alabama concretions are phosphatic and very hard, and don't look like "crab balls". There are rare horizons in the Late Cretaceous of Montana and North and South Dakota where crabs can be common, and occur in small phosphate concretions. If you use google scholar to look up Gale Bishop, you will find a number of journal articles describing these crabs. I expect that such horizons may also be found in Wyoming, but that area was in deeper water during the Late Cretaceous so crabs are even rarer. I know of a Cretaceous lobster that was found in a concretion in glacial material on Long Island, but I don't know of any New York localities that produce "crab balls". Crabs are easily disarticulated, so rare conditions are needed for them to fossilize intact. Some species dug burrows into the sediment, where they would hide while molting or during rough weather. A really bad storm could generate enough wave action to collapse burrows and bury the crabs intact. Many of the Washington/Oregon crabs were caught in turbidity flows and buried in deep water, beyond the reach of scavengers that might tear up the carcass. Turbidity flows are basically underwater landslides, where fine mud that has been deposited on a steep underwater slope breaks loose and slides to the base of the slope, carrying and burying everything that was in its path. Once buried, the decaying crab causes changes in the chemistry of the water in the mud that causes carbonate or phosphate to precipitate, cementing the sediment around the crab and forming a concretion that protects the fossil from being flattened as the surrounding sediment is compressed as it is buried ever deeper and turns to shale. In most places, crabs are not buried quickly after death, so the shell breaks apart into individual components or commonly is broken to small bits by scavengers. Just a day or two of getting washed around by waves is enough to reduce a dead crab to tiny fragments, which are difficult to recognize as fossils. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Wow! Great info, Don! That was cool to learn about. Thanks! Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGS Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Really great information. Thanks Don. You make them even more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 ... I know of a Cretaceous lobster that was found in a concretion in glacial material on Long Island, but I don't know of any New York localities that produce "crab balls"... That was interesting, thanks. As far as New York crabs goes, this is what I was referring to But the only lobsters I find on Long Island are here ! EDIT: Link Repaired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGS Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 But the only lobsters I find on Long Island are here ! Cute! that's as close as i will probably ever be to a crab or lobster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paco Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 That was interesting, thanks. As far as New York crabs goes, this is what I was referring to But the only lobsters I find on Long Island are here ! EDIT: Link Repaired Hahaha!!! Crab(meat) balls anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinopaleus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hahaha!!! Crab(meat) balls anybody? hey! i just had them for dinner!! what a coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoTerra Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I have recently been to a site that is turning up quite a few nodules containing a high percentage of crab claws and various other appendage segments from an Eocene outcrop here in East Texas. I even have a small, about 15mm across, crab carapace with some appendages showing on the surface of a calcium hardened fragment of oxidized glauconite. They appear to be coming from the species Harpactocarcinus americanus. Which by the size of some of the claws, can be pretty big. So I have begun to look for larger nodules, or I suppose what might be called crab balls, in hopes of finding whole crabs. While optimistic about turning up whole Eocene crabs in nodules from E. Texas, I believe this would be a rare find indeed. The pictures below are some of the three-dimensional claws I have found from the Weches formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGS Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Those are cool. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Those are cool. Thanks. Hey JGS. Even when you do find a local for crab concs, even where they are prevalent, its still hard to get a 'good' one. You almost always have to go through many to get one good one, and even a good one will be far from perfect. With all those legs and claws. I still dont have even one with all the tippy tips. Still looking though. Even those claw parts that paleoterra is finding look to me to be shrimp claws. Im not sure about that, im no expert, but look very much like the ones on the upper west coast from the Eocene and Miocene. I do wish you the very best of luck and maybe you will be the one who finds em in Wyoming. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 JGS- Crabs do turn up in WY rocks every now and then, usually late Cretaceous, but they are rare. The best concentration I know of is a dozen or two found in the Mowry Shale (I think) by some of the folks at the WY Dino Center. I know one of our FF members has found one in the Frontier Fm near Casper. I have been back to the site to look for more... no luck. I do have two late K crabs from 1) Frontier Fm near Casper (different site) and 2) Pierre Shale near Lusk. Both are sites I have collected a lot of ammonites and shells at... and one crab. Rare.. that is the WY crab story. PaleoTerra- As RJB suggested, those are indeed calianassid claws... mud shrimps. They have hard claws that fossilize easily and very soft bodies that rarely fossilize and are still alive and plentiful today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoTerra Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 JGS- Crabs do turn up in WY rocks every now and then, usually late Cretaceous, but they are rare. The best concentration I know of is a dozen or two found in the Mowry Shale (I think) by some of the folks at the WY Dino Center. I know one of our FF members has found one in the Frontier Fm near Casper. I have been back to the site to look for more... no luck. I do have two late K crabs from 1) Frontier Fm near Casper (different site) and 2) Pierre Shale near Lusk. Both are sites I have collected a lot of ammonites and shells at... and one crab. Rare.. that is the WY crab story. PaleoTerra- As RJB suggested, those are indeed calianassid claws... mud shrimps. They have hard claws that fossilize easily and very soft bodies that rarely fossilize and are still alive and plentiful today. Thanks guys! After looking into this further I realize you are correct! And it perfectly explains why when two of the chela are found in the same nodule, they are oriented almost parallel to each other. The Harpactocarcinus was just tentative since it was the only decapod that I could find listed for the Claiborne and has a very similar chela profile. Does anybody happen to know a species ID on these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I have tried to ID calianassid claws... very difficult. Sorry, I'm no use to you on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGS Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Now my hopes are up!!!!! I am off to find Crabs Yaaahhoooooo!!!!! Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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