ghost1066 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) First, whoever thought putting an arcade on here should be reprimanded severely for causing me to waste so much time. Secondly, How many have tried to explain to someone why what they thought they found couldn't be right? I had a student, who is older than I am, tell me about the fish and lizard fossils she found in Ordovician formations. When I tried to tell her differently she refused to believe me even when I explained why they weren't what she thought. And finally I just cleaned up a trilobite I bought online years ago with no ID. I think it is a Calymene niagarensis according to the old publication I use. I will get a pic or three and let the pros here tell me. I found out it had been glued up and matrix added when I started looking at it. No big deal I just scrubbed the dirt off. Edited August 28, 2011 by ghost1066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 it isn't a calymene. it's a lizard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost1066 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 it isn't a calymene. it's a lizard... Funny I told her the "ribs" she found were almost certainly part of a cephalopod since fish didn't exist in the deposit she found it in and lizards surely didn't. "Oh yes they did. That is what I found I KNOW it is." says she. Well shoot why didn't you tell me you KNEW at first. Would have saved me explaining those things weren't alive then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Tommy, People are funny, and most people do not understand the fossilization process. We've had lizards and frogs and eagle here recently, as well as pterodactyls, and seahorses and eggs. We can only point them in the right direction. "You can lead a horse to water...." The human mind and eye work in tandem to make things fit familiar patterns. People see what they want to see... hence the images of Jesus or the Virgin Mary in french toast, or potato chips. Or seeing dolphins, or faces in the clouds. It can be frustrating dealing with these people, but....I've found it's best tp just try to be patient, explain what you knowabout what you are seeing, and if they want to believe they have lizards from the Cambrian, or monkeys from the Ordovician... whatever. Life is too short to waste my time/energy worrying about what someone thinks they've found. If it helps them sleep better at night... no skin off my nose. Just smile and say "Enjoy your fossil". And leave it at that. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost1066 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Tim, You had me rolling with that one. :D I know it shouldn't matter but it must be the teacher in me. I hate bad science. But you are right if it makes them happy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 First, whoever thought putting an arcade on here should be reprimanded severely for causing me to waste so much time. Reminds me of back in the dark days when I taught middle school. We were discussing the Berengia land bridge, and how cold it might have been. I had one dandy of a student hold her pudgy little hand up. while discretion is often the better part of valor, I reluctantly called on her. She said "Mr. Ashcraft, Alaska is not cold, it is really hot!" I tried to convince her to the contrary, but she whipped out her geography book, opened it and showed me a map. Sure enough, it was a map of the United States, with Alaska and Hawaii in little boxes in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Fortunatly the bell rang. I hate junior high. Brent "The Geographer" Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vordigern Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 lol,reminds me of a coworker who visited Big Brook with her husband after I told her about a few of my hunts and she came into work on Monday,after visiting Big Brook on the weekend, with a basket full of "dinosaur eggs" and no matter what I said she would not accept that she had a basket full of concretions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacialerratic Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 At least all that is not as bad as someone talking about dino tracks being faked to fool us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 In General I agree with Tim, but bad science and bad science education can kill people. For example" There is significant debate as to wheather global warming exists" or "I just smoke socially" or "Measles vaccines cause autism" or "That sloping forhead shows he is of inferior intelligence" Need I go on? I try harder to explain these dangerous myths away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The art of Critical Thinking "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I have to echo Fossildude19. I don't know how many times someone has told me about the "big ole water mocassin" they saw by the creek, lake, or pond. I guess I just figure I would be perceived as condescending if I dispute them. Oh, we have plenty of water snakes here, and they get big, and they're mean and nasty, but they aren't water mocassins. Speaking for myself, there are more than a few times I've been humbled on this forum with my misconclusions. So taking a hint, I really try to do research before posting. After all, I have one of the best resources ever invented literally at my fingertips. An example is spiriferid brachs. I thought I'd found a unique coiled crystal growth in one. Glad I kept looking before trying to 'show it off'. I found out that the coil is the reason they are called spirifers! DUH! Ok, enough rambling from me. I like friendly discussions like this topic. Steve Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost1066 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Funny hearing about the water moccasins, can't remember how many times I have heard that one. We do have them just not around here. I really try not to post many things here with a name hung on them. The reason is I do this for fun and don't take it as seriously as others. I don't really need to know every bit of info on something to make it special to me but am happy to learn from the folks here that do know what they are talking about. A few people have given me some amazing amounts of information on just a the few posts I have put up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 LOL!!! Case in point! I spelled moccasin wrong! I know better than that Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 speakin of fossils, i'm a snake eggspurt. i say eggspurt cuz i'm from out of town, i have a briefcase, and i usually charge $200 an hour for my thoughts on stuff. but that's not why i'm here. i'm hear to talk about being wrong. i am wrong more often than many who post here. part of the reason is cuz i post a lot. but the other part is cuz i just halfway look at stuff sometimes before i toss out thoughts on it. and the other part is because to err is human (and up to 4% neanderthal), and i like letting ya'll be divine by forgiving me. even if ya'll's divinity sometimes tastes just like fudge. but just for the record, even a broke watch is right twice a day, and sometimes water mosquissins actually are water mosquissins, and it's dangerous to mentally dictate to yourself that lizards from teh cambrian did not in any way resemble edentulous bisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Kansas Watermocassins!! One of my pet peeves when I used to teach. I'll bet 90% of people in Kansas think every snake near water is one! This thread reminds me of a thread I started on a bowhunting web site called "Rural Legends" People posted their local myths, and come to find out, they are pretty wide spread. Out here in Kansas every year I hear the same old "True" story of some city folks coming out to hunt quail, and they shoot a bunch of meadowlarks thinking they are quail. Another classic is the one about the divers going down near the dam of (insert your local lake name here), and saw catfish big enough to swallow a man. Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost1066 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Kansas Watermocassins!! One of my pet peeves when I used to teach. I'll bet 90% of people in Kansas think every snake near water is one! This thread reminds me of a thread I started on a bowhunting web site called "Rural Legends" People posted their local myths, and come to find out, they are pretty wide spread. Out here in Kansas every year I hear the same old "True" story of some city folks coming out to hunt quail, and they shoot a bunch of meadowlarks thinking they are quail. Another classic is the one about the divers going down near the dam of (insert your local lake name here), and saw catfish big enough to swallow a man. Ramo Another bow hunter, cheers. I just got another 600+ acres to hunt today completely by accident. Only 4 minutes from my house. :D Season starts the 24th here. Good luck this year. And yep I have heard the catfish one and the snake one and the wrong fossil one and today it was a black panther one. City people are funny. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 In General I agree with Tim, but bad science and bad science education can kill people. For example" There is significant debate as to wheather global warming exists" or "I just smoke socially" or "Measles vaccines cause autism" or "That sloping forhead shows he is of inferior intelligence" Need I go on? I try harder to explain these dangerous myths away. Not to be pointed, but I consider myself fairly educated and well read, but disagree with several of your examples. My grandfather smoked until he was 80, and chewed until he was 98. Guess he could have lived longer....You are trying to take what happens to a poulation and apply it to genetically diverse individuals, just won't work. That IS bad science. As for global warming happening or not, I refer you to the "healed" ozone hole for why I am somewhat skeptical, not to mention my highschool yearbook that trumpeted the start of the next iceage. Skepticism is the basis for all science. I can be convinced that the earth is warming, can you be dissuaded from what you think is correct? Bad science? Bad science education? May not want to send your young-uns to my school, dangerous myths abound. Always educational and occasionally confrontational, Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost1066 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 speakin of fossils, i'm a snake eggspurt. i say eggspurt cuz i'm from out of town, i have a briefcase, and i usually charge $200 an hour for my thoughts on stuff. but that's not why i'm here. i'm hear to talk about being wrong. i am wrong more often than many who post here. part of the reason is cuz i post a lot. but the other part is cuz i just halfway look at stuff sometimes before i toss out thoughts on it. and the other part is because to err is human (and up to 4% neanderthal), and i like letting ya'll be divine by forgiving me. even if ya'll's divinity sometimes tastes just like fudge. but just for the record, even a broke watch is right twice a day, and sometimes water mosquissins actually are water mosquissins, and it's dangerous to mentally dictate to yourself that lizards from teh cambrian did not in any way resemble edentulous bisons. Tracer you ain't right. Oh man that was a good one. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Not to be pointed, but I consider myself fairly educated and well read, but disagree with several of your examples. My grandfather smoked until he was 80, and chewed until he was 98. Guess he could have lived longer....You are trying to take what happens to a poulation and apply it to genetically diverse individuals, just won't work. That IS bad science. As for global warming happening or not, I refer you to the "healed" ozone hole for why I am somewhat skeptical, not to mention my highschool yearbook that trumpeted the start of the next iceage. Skepticism is the basis for all science. I can be convinced that the earth is warming, can you be dissuaded from what you think is correct? Bad science? Bad science education? May not want to send your young-uns to my school, dangerous myths abound. Always educational and occasionally confrontational, Brent Ashcraft Yup, your grandpa smoked and drank and survived, great example. Your N of 1 gives your argument 0 statistical power. I know of a story of someone who died on a cross, but survived anyway. Wanna try crucifiction? More recently I met someone who used to train paratroopers for the military. He fell from the 200 foot training tower and survived! true story. But the LD 50 ( the dose that kills 50% of those exposed) for falls is about two stories. Smoking kills, period. And half of those it kills die early. Because some get lucky does not change the fact that most people that smoke suffer significant health issues. If you don't believe me, then go ahead and try and see if you are one of the lucky ones. I never said that every single smoker dies of smoking, you set up that straw man yourself. In fact I am well aware of Stimson Schantz' work with genetic background and smoking risk, are you? What I was referring to is the mistaken belief that if you only smoke when you go out with your friends somehow those same carcinogens do not effect your DNA. The "healed" ozone is still relatively depleted, but improving. But don't forget we did something about the ozone! But please read the literature! Look at the articles and find the flaws (they are there) and fix them. I find science constantly correcting and refining its predictions. I am amazed that presidential candidates from states with record breaking droughts are sooo incapable of reading what is out there as far as science literature as to think there is some huge doubt among scientists about what is happening. It is analogous to saying that because we cannot explain quantum mechanics in terms of Einstein's General OR Special Relativity theory that scientists are debating what will happen if you drop an apple on Newton's head. As far as being pointed, I really don't mind You are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt4 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies. – Friedrich Nietzsche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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