sward Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 It's been a couple of weeks since I've checked out the hillside near my house. We've had a couple of pretty good rains since the last time I was there so I figured it was time to check it out again. In the past, this hillside has been a fun place to hunt since it's less than 5 minutes from my house and has a pretty good variety of stuff (heart urchins, regular urchins, shark teeth, plesioturrites, fish and shark verts, a couple of xiphactinus verts and teeth, ammos, gryphea, crab claws, etc.). However, today I found a "complete" fish. My problem is now I don't know what to do with it. It appears to be very fragile and I'm afraid if I try to remove it as is, it will fall apart. So, I'm turning to the experts who have alot more experience with this to get your recommendations. How should I go about trying to remove it without it falling apart? Should I plaster it and try to prep it from the other side? I don't know what the other side is going to look like. Should I do my best to remove it as it is and try to prep it? Here is a pic as I originally found it. The pic does not show it as well as it appears so I have highlighted the outline. Partially exposed: Close-up of "scales" and verts (I'm not sure if these are scales"): Close-up of verts still in-situ: These are some fragments I found laying next to the fish: SWardSoutheast Missouri (formerly Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 wow! i've never seen an articulated fish from the grayson! Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Looks like plaster cast time, some of the local hunters like vertman, boneman007 should help with info. about removal--Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sward Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Dan, This is a first for me, that's why I want to find out what's going to be the best way to try and keep it whole. Like I said, I have found lots of verts and such in the same area, but always just pieces. The first pic really doesn't stand out as well as it does in real life. I recognized it immediately. Once I bent down and started inspecting it a little closer, that's when I realized there were exposed verts still in place. The fragments (last series of pics) were recovered right next to the outlined area in the first pic so I'm sure they're from the same fish. SWardSoutheast Missouri (formerly Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sward Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Tom, I'ver never plastered a fossil before. I've read up on it, but never had an occassion to need it. It sounds like I may need to read up a bit more so I'll know what I'm doing. SWardSoutheast Missouri (formerly Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Yes, definitely plaster it. Just make sure you use enough so it won't split when you flip it, but not so much that it's too heavy. Also, it may be worth taking the time cleaning it in the field so the plaster has plenty of bones to adhere to. The other side may be better since it was laying in the mud on the sea floor, while the top side was exposed to animals that would pick at it. Or so I was told. We're all eager to see the final result. Edited March 30, 2012 by Missourian Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Are you guys suggesting plastering directly to the fish, or instead wet paper towels on the fish first, then plaster, let it dry, and yank it out in a pedestal? Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squalicorax Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Are you guys suggesting plastering directly to the fish, or instead wet paper towels on the fish first, then plaster, let it dry, and yank it out in a pedestal? You defiantly want to add paper towel or Toilet paper to the fossil remains wet and pretty thick. Make sure you undercut it pretty good as well any maybe slide a metal sign under it so it doesn't fracture apart. But yes a plaster jacket would work well here. My Flickr Page of My Collection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/79424101@N00/sets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I definitely agree...you want to 'pedestal' that thing before you try to plaster jacket it. Protect the exposed surfaces with something (I used to prefer moistened burlap but paper towel or even newspaper will work). Once that is done there are a number of techniques that people use. I would soak strips of burlap (or a suitable substitute) in a mix of thin plaster and then begin to lay them over the pedestalled fossil until it was completely encased over the top and sides. Continue to build on layers of plaster-soaked material to the entire exposed portion of the fossil. After allowing the whole thing to dry you can undercut the remaining sediment beneath it and slowly turn the fossil over. If necessary, you can now cover the remaining exposed surface (what used to be the bottom) with plaster-soaked material. Once everything is completely dried and solidified you can transport the fossil to your work area where the REAL fun begins...the prep! -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I assume that is a rare find, if Dan's never seen one. You might want to contact a museum. If I had found it out in the chalk, where they are not uncommon, I'd clean the chalk from the bone, and pour plaster directly on the bones. Then flip it over and clean from the bottom side. That way the plaster becomes the "matrix" that holds it all together. On the other hand, if it is rare enough, and someone wants to study it, you should use something between the bone and the plaster. Some people use aluminum foil. But be warned if you turn it over and try to clean the back side off, it will probably fall apart. I guess you need to figure out if the "show side" is up, or if it is down right now. A few thin strips of wood in the jacket will do a lot towards strengthening it as well as burlap. Don't forget, it's been there a long time. No need to rush things now and mess it up. Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If it is as friable as it looks, it might be a good idea to hose it down with thin cyanoacrylate before applying the tissue/plaster. One can assume that the "back" side might be less weathered, and thus might be the better to prep. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I'm with Bowkill. This looks like a Niobrara chalk fish. Pedestal the fossil, pour plaster directly on the bones, wrap in plaster-soaked burlap. Flip over and prep the other side. That's the way it's been done for 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sward Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 If it is as friable as it looks, it might be a good idea to hose it down with thin cyanoacrylate before applying the tissue/plaster. One can assume that the "back" side might be less weathered, and thus might be the better to prep. Auspex, After doing a google search for "cyanoacrylate" as you recommeded, I learned this is "Krazy Glue" or "Paleobond". I of course have easy access to Krazy Glue, but not so with Paleobond. Can Krazy Glue be "thinned" and then applied or do you recommend Paleobond? I also found this old thread that recommends "Duco" glue mixed with acetone http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php/topic/2671-paleobond/ . Would this be a recommendation as well? As this is my first adventure into trying to recover a "complete" fossil, I want to learn as much as I can and do this right. All of these comments are helpful. I appreciate everyone's input. SWardSoutheast Missouri (formerly Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxman56 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Gee I wish I had your "troubles" Fantasic Find. Good luck and take pleanty of time getting it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The duco cement with acetone is like B-72 (a paleobond product). I have used it before. The good thing about it is that it is reversable. The bad thing is that it will be cloudy if there is even just a little moisture. The super glue or cyanoacrylate would also help to hold things in place. You may want to douse it with that some, if pieces are falling off. The bad thing about super glue, is that it is not reversable, and it may cloud as well. If you just clean it off (As George Sternberg used to say "Preparing the floor") and pouring plaster on it, it will hold it together as well. If it were me, I probably wouldn't put anything on it besides plaster. After you clean off the bottom side at your leisure, you can coat it with Duco cement/acetone to seal it. You could make a wooden frame to place around it to fill with your plaster, so you can level the plaster off. That way you can judge how thick your plaster will be over the fossil. (I'd go for at least an inch) Then when you are done it will have aflat bottom, and allready in a frame. Good luck Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The duco cement with acetone is like B-72 (a paleobond product). I have used it before. The good thing about it is that it is reversable. The bad thing is that it will be cloudy if there is even just a little moisture. The super glue or cyanoacrylate would also help to hold things in place. You may want to douse it with that some, if pieces are falling off. The bad thing about super glue, is that it is not reversable, and it may cloud as well. If you just clean it off (As George Sternberg used to say "Preparing the floor") and pouring plaster on it, it will hold it together as well. If it were me, I probably wouldn't put anything on it besides plaster. After you clean off the bottom side at your leisure, you can coat it with Duco cement/acetone to seal it. You could make a wooden frame to place around it to fill with your plaster, so you can level the plaster off. That way you can judge how thick your plaster will be over the fossil. (I'd go for at least an inch) Then when you are done it will have aflat bottom, and allready in a frame. Good luck Ramo Perfectly stated! With this approach, you will have a display-ready fish in exactly its death pose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Before you go crazy and start digging, I would love to take a look at the piece. I have prepped a number of larger fish, much like yours, from Kansas and Texas. (And yes, we do get to occasionally find complete stuff down here, this isnt the first!) There are a lot of little things that may help with a better end result. I'd be happy to let you use my air abbrasive as well. It can make the final result so very astetically pleasing! I can probably ID the fish for you too. Great Find! Great field prep! Congratulations! Now don't hurt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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