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Tsmom

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I have been told that there has never been whole fossilized turtles found. However, I have found a lot of what APPEAR to be whole turtle fossils. Here are three. Any thoughts?

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Those are stones that have broken or worn into shapes which vaguely suggest that of a turtle.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Auspex.

These do not look like Turtle fossils.

Regards,

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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whole tortoises are common in the oligocene badlands, we took two in sept. they seem to be rare elsewhere.

Grüße,

Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas

"To the motivated go the spoils."

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Hate to be on the side of the naysayers, but I'm not sure on what basis you're concluding that you've found turtle/tortoise fossils. In any case, I suppose part of the answer might be what you mean by "whole." "Whole" meaning soft parts - no. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact? A fair number. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact PLUS all skeletal elements? I'd imagine those would be pretty rare. But that's pretty clearly not what you've found. Best, ~W

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Hate to be on the side of the naysayers, but I'm not sure on what basis you're concluding that you've found turtle/tortoise fossils. In any case, I suppose part of the answer might be what you mean by "whole." "Whole" meaning soft parts - no. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact? A fair number. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact PLUS all skeletal elements? I'd imagine those would be pretty rare. But that's pretty clearly not what you've found. Best, ~W

Soft parts rarely fossilize for any genus. However, I suspect that somewhere, Like T-Rex, is a specimen or two with the soft parts intact. I have not, however, seen one myself.

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I just meant that I have some with divided "shells" (top and bottom) and head and feet sticking out. Have not been able to get good detail in photos. But I agree they could very well be geofacts. I have a reluctance with that only because in this particular location I have found literally dozens and could easily find more. I certainly did not at all have turtles on my mind until I kept finding these turtle look alikes and not a lot else. (Although a few points and tools)

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You apparently did not believe us or any of the other posts from the other forums.

These guys will not misslead you and the arrowhead forums did not try to misslead you either.

These are just stones that you apparently have seen something there that is just not as you want them to be.

If you want to find fossil turtles then by all means book you a trip to the bad lands as I suggested before.

You can find them there.

We find Cretaceous sea turtles here in the DFW area but you can see without a doubt that these are truly turtles. Ours are as large as a VW bug though.

I personnaly have only found small portions of shell andvertebrae and portions of bones. But I know there is one out there somewhere in the Woodbine or the Eagleford.

A nice one was found last year I think in the red beds fo the Sulphur river in N Tex.

Do not be offended we are here to help you and letting you know as gracefully as possible without being offensive that your stones are only stones is the best way we can do this.

BTW: There is a distinction between tortoise and turtle.

Bone2stone

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As far as relatively complete turtles are concerned...the White River badlands have turned up a few essentially complete specimens. I have personally found a couple with both carapace and plastron as well as nearly complete legs and feet (all four of them) up to, and including, the claw cores (third phalanges). Unfortunately, none of the specimens I've managed to locate had the skull in place. I was also in on the initial dig of the large Archelon-type marine turtle in a farmer's field in the Fate, TX area. That one is nowhere NEAR complete and the reconstruction in the Dallas museum is precisely that...a reconstruction based on the fragmentary fossil evidence we found and a whole lot of copies of body parts from other similar turtles. Other than that, most of my turtle (and tortoise) finds have been small sections of shell from things like Geochelone (a Galapagos tortoise sized beastie that used to roam North America during the Pleistocene) and Trionyx (soft-shell turtles).

I'm afraid that I must agree with the others in saying that the specimens you've got there are not turtle pieces.

-Joe

Illigitimati non carborundum

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I to say sorry but not turtle

Fossil bites and pieces are very common up here ( southern Alberta) late cretaceous

complete turtles are also found regularly

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As far as relatively complete turtles are concerned...the White River badlands have turned up a few essentially complete specimens. I have personally found a couple with both carapace and plastron as well as nearly complete legs and feet (all four of them) up to, and including, the claw cores (third phalanges). Unfortunately, none of the specimens I've managed to locate had the skull in place. I was also in on the initial dig of the large Archelon-type marine turtle in a farmer's field in the Fate, TX area. That one is nowhere NEAR complete and the reconstruction in the Dallas museum is precisely that...a reconstruction based on the fragmentary fossil evidence we found and a whole lot of copies of body parts from other similar turtles. Other than that, most of my turtle (and tortoise) finds have been small sections of shell from things like Geochelone (a Galapagos tortoise sized beastie that used to roam North America during the Pleistocene) and Trionyx (soft-shell turtles).

I'm afraid that I must agree with the others in saying that the specimens you've got there are not turtle pieces.

-Joe

Joe,

Some of the vertebrae would not have had to be replaced had the theft not had taken place.

Just as the mastadon teeth & tusks in Waco that some one took.

It may not be complete but there was enough of it for a positive ID.

Jess B.

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Jess...yes...there WAS enough of the turtle for a positive ID. As a matter of fact...I was the first one to ID it...at least as being turtle material! :) I was lucky enough to be a part of the small group that did the initial reconaissance of the site (with Chuck Finsley, Ken Smith, Joe Kennedy, Bill Lowe and a few others).

-Joe

Illigitimati non carborundum

Fruitbat's PDF Library

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Jess...yes...there WAS enough of the turtle for a positive ID. As a matter of fact...I was the first one to ID it...at least as being turtle material! :) I was lucky enough to be a part of the small group that did the initial reconaissance of the site (with Chuck Finsley, Ken Smith, Joe Kennedy, Bill Lowe and a few others).

-Joe

(Ken Smith)

Haven't seen that name used in quite some time.

Sure miss him, God rest his soul.

Was he in the bad lands at the time of his passing?

Now that guy had some nice turtles. Good at prepping them out too.

I know that we know each other. If you know all these others then we surely do.

Last time I saw Bill Lowe he was having hard time getting around.

He lives in Pecan Plantation near Granbury now.

Run into him at fossilmania couple of years ago.

" A rock on the ground is a specimen when picked up and taken home" Jessy B. 1984

Edited by bone2stone
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Yeah, Hearing Ken's name does bring a tear to my eye. He was one of the folks that took me under his wing when I first started fossil hunting. Heck of a guy.

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Ken and I had been pretty close friends since the middle 1970s when we met in the Big Bend area. We were both collecting reptiles at the time and he was still living in the Chicago area. From that point on, he and I (along with Joe Kennedy and a few others) became a pretty tight-knit group and lived within a few blocks of each other in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. We were both working on the mammoth skeleton with the DMNH when we came up with the idea to found the Dallas Paleo Society and I was with him when he made his first trip to the badlands of Nebraska/South Dakota/Wyoming. When he passed away it was due to a brain embolism (from what I've been told) he suffered while SCUBA diving in the Caribbean. He was a great naturalist and an outstanding preparator of fossils.

I ran into Bill Lowe at a Dallas Paleo Society meeting a few years back when they were honoring the founders of the Society (of which I was the first president). He was still moving around (albeit slowly) but that's what happens when old age starts to creep up on you! I know THAT from personal experience!

Sorry to hijack the thread for a little reminiscence but coprolites happen!

-Joe

Illigitimati non carborundum

Fruitbat's PDF Library

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coprolites happen!

Speaking of hijacking... I'm going to HAVE to hijack that statement! LMFAO! (Laugh my fossil-hunting ankles off! - There are kids here you know!)

Edited by Boneman007
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I was just thinking about Ken the other day when someone asked me how he past. He gave me a fossil bird egg from the badlands and it's now the top specimen in my daughters collection. Ken was a great guy!

Mikey

Many times I've wondered how much there is to know.  
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I think we should stop here.

Looks as if we completely lost context of this thread. (HIGHJACKED IT COMPLETELY!!!)

It started out innocently enough as a question on some suspiciously

"turtle" looks like.............question.

Turned into reminising about the good ole days of 30 years ago with the Dallas paleo...

Back to reallity...

I remember when.........................

Jess B.

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