Tsmom Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have been told that there has never been whole fossilized turtles found. However, I have found a lot of what APPEAR to be whole turtle fossils. Here are three. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Those are stones that have broken or worn into shapes which vaguely suggest that of a turtle. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsmom Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 One more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Auspex. These do not look like Turtle fossils. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsmom Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Okay. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 whole tortoises are common in the oligocene badlands, we took two in sept. they seem to be rare elsewhere. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendell Ricketts Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hate to be on the side of the naysayers, but I'm not sure on what basis you're concluding that you've found turtle/tortoise fossils. In any case, I suppose part of the answer might be what you mean by "whole." "Whole" meaning soft parts - no. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact? A fair number. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact PLUS all skeletal elements? I'd imagine those would be pretty rare. But that's pretty clearly not what you've found. Best, ~W _________________________________ Wendell Ricketts Fossil News: The Journal of Avocational Paleontology http://fossilnews.org https://twitter.com/Fossil_News The "InvertebrateMe" blog http://invertebrateme.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hate to be on the side of the naysayers, but I'm not sure on what basis you're concluding that you've found turtle/tortoise fossils. In any case, I suppose part of the answer might be what you mean by "whole." "Whole" meaning soft parts - no. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact? A fair number. "Whole" meaning carapace and plastron intact PLUS all skeletal elements? I'd imagine those would be pretty rare. But that's pretty clearly not what you've found. Best, ~W Soft parts rarely fossilize for any genus. However, I suspect that somewhere, Like T-Rex, is a specimen or two with the soft parts intact. I have not, however, seen one myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsmom Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 I just meant that I have some with divided "shells" (top and bottom) and head and feet sticking out. Have not been able to get good detail in photos. But I agree they could very well be geofacts. I have a reluctance with that only because in this particular location I have found literally dozens and could easily find more. I certainly did not at all have turtles on my mind until I kept finding these turtle look alikes and not a lot else. (Although a few points and tools) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 You apparently did not believe us or any of the other posts from the other forums. These guys will not misslead you and the arrowhead forums did not try to misslead you either. These are just stones that you apparently have seen something there that is just not as you want them to be. If you want to find fossil turtles then by all means book you a trip to the bad lands as I suggested before. You can find them there. We find Cretaceous sea turtles here in the DFW area but you can see without a doubt that these are truly turtles. Ours are as large as a VW bug though. I personnaly have only found small portions of shell andvertebrae and portions of bones. But I know there is one out there somewhere in the Woodbine or the Eagleford. A nice one was found last year I think in the red beds fo the Sulphur river in N Tex. Do not be offended we are here to help you and letting you know as gracefully as possible without being offensive that your stones are only stones is the best way we can do this. BTW: There is a distinction between tortoise and turtle. Bone2stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 As far as relatively complete turtles are concerned...the White River badlands have turned up a few essentially complete specimens. I have personally found a couple with both carapace and plastron as well as nearly complete legs and feet (all four of them) up to, and including, the claw cores (third phalanges). Unfortunately, none of the specimens I've managed to locate had the skull in place. I was also in on the initial dig of the large Archelon-type marine turtle in a farmer's field in the Fate, TX area. That one is nowhere NEAR complete and the reconstruction in the Dallas museum is precisely that...a reconstruction based on the fragmentary fossil evidence we found and a whole lot of copies of body parts from other similar turtles. Other than that, most of my turtle (and tortoise) finds have been small sections of shell from things like Geochelone (a Galapagos tortoise sized beastie that used to roam North America during the Pleistocene) and Trionyx (soft-shell turtles). I'm afraid that I must agree with the others in saying that the specimens you've got there are not turtle pieces. -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa dino Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I to say sorry but not turtle Fossil bites and pieces are very common up here ( southern Alberta) late cretaceous complete turtles are also found regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 As far as relatively complete turtles are concerned...the White River badlands have turned up a few essentially complete specimens. I have personally found a couple with both carapace and plastron as well as nearly complete legs and feet (all four of them) up to, and including, the claw cores (third phalanges). Unfortunately, none of the specimens I've managed to locate had the skull in place. I was also in on the initial dig of the large Archelon-type marine turtle in a farmer's field in the Fate, TX area. That one is nowhere NEAR complete and the reconstruction in the Dallas museum is precisely that...a reconstruction based on the fragmentary fossil evidence we found and a whole lot of copies of body parts from other similar turtles. Other than that, most of my turtle (and tortoise) finds have been small sections of shell from things like Geochelone (a Galapagos tortoise sized beastie that used to roam North America during the Pleistocene) and Trionyx (soft-shell turtles). I'm afraid that I must agree with the others in saying that the specimens you've got there are not turtle pieces. -Joe Joe, Some of the vertebrae would not have had to be replaced had the theft not had taken place. Just as the mastadon teeth & tusks in Waco that some one took. It may not be complete but there was enough of it for a positive ID. Jess B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Jess...yes...there WAS enough of the turtle for a positive ID. As a matter of fact...I was the first one to ID it...at least as being turtle material! I was lucky enough to be a part of the small group that did the initial reconaissance of the site (with Chuck Finsley, Ken Smith, Joe Kennedy, Bill Lowe and a few others). -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Jess...yes...there WAS enough of the turtle for a positive ID. As a matter of fact...I was the first one to ID it...at least as being turtle material! I was lucky enough to be a part of the small group that did the initial reconaissance of the site (with Chuck Finsley, Ken Smith, Joe Kennedy, Bill Lowe and a few others). -Joe (Ken Smith) Haven't seen that name used in quite some time. Sure miss him, God rest his soul. Was he in the bad lands at the time of his passing? Now that guy had some nice turtles. Good at prepping them out too. I know that we know each other. If you know all these others then we surely do. Last time I saw Bill Lowe he was having hard time getting around. He lives in Pecan Plantation near Granbury now. Run into him at fossilmania couple of years ago. " A rock on the ground is a specimen when picked up and taken home" Jessy B. 1984 Edited November 12, 2012 by bone2stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yeah, Hearing Ken's name does bring a tear to my eye. He was one of the folks that took me under his wing when I first started fossil hunting. Heck of a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Ken and I had been pretty close friends since the middle 1970s when we met in the Big Bend area. We were both collecting reptiles at the time and he was still living in the Chicago area. From that point on, he and I (along with Joe Kennedy and a few others) became a pretty tight-knit group and lived within a few blocks of each other in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. We were both working on the mammoth skeleton with the DMNH when we came up with the idea to found the Dallas Paleo Society and I was with him when he made his first trip to the badlands of Nebraska/South Dakota/Wyoming. When he passed away it was due to a brain embolism (from what I've been told) he suffered while SCUBA diving in the Caribbean. He was a great naturalist and an outstanding preparator of fossils. I ran into Bill Lowe at a Dallas Paleo Society meeting a few years back when they were honoring the founders of the Society (of which I was the first president). He was still moving around (albeit slowly) but that's what happens when old age starts to creep up on you! I know THAT from personal experience! Sorry to hijack the thread for a little reminiscence but coprolites happen! -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) coprolites happen! Speaking of hijacking... I'm going to HAVE to hijack that statement! LMFAO! (Laugh my fossil-hunting ankles off! - There are kids here you know!) Edited November 14, 2012 by Boneman007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yes...I know ! I use that statement occasionally in my classroom. The students haven't figured it out yet. -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I was just thinking about Ken the other day when someone asked me how he past. He gave me a fossil bird egg from the badlands and it's now the top specimen in my daughters collection. Ken was a great guy! Mikey Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think we should stop here. Looks as if we completely lost context of this thread. (HIGHJACKED IT COMPLETELY!!!) It started out innocently enough as a question on some suspiciously "turtle" looks like.............question. Turned into reminising about the good ole days of 30 years ago with the Dallas paleo... Back to reallity... I remember when......................... Jess B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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