Surfers Find Fossil

[Dave pom Allen]

Whale Fossil In Santa Cruz news article

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/fossil-santa-cruz-beach-surfers-extinct-whale-photo_n_2139844.html?fb_action_ids=4365158840295&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%224365158840295%22%3A167706486686337%7D&action_type_map=%7B%224365158840295%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

[redleaf101]

Thank you for posting the article! =)

[Oxytropidoceras]

Other articles are:

Whale skeleton fossils in Santa Cruz area draw

gawkers by Jason Hoppin, Santa Cruz Sentinel

http://www.mercuryne...ea-draw-gawkers

and

Gnarly big skeleton found outside Jack O'Neill's

house KSBW News,

http://www.ksbw.com/...vu/-/index.html

http://www.nbclosang...-179735681.html

Best wishes,

Paul H.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Oxytropidoceras

[Scylla]

New whale skeleton found, I would head out with a pickup full of plaster at neap tide if I could http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_22013742/whale-skeleton-fossils-santa-cruz-area-draw-gawkers?source=most_viewed

[Boesse]

I don't really know of anyone who'd really be able to dig up the whale. Ironically enough, the discovery of this specimen started when somebody posted a picture to reddit (which I saw before it got here). Now that I'm not in CA anymore, there really aren't many interested or capable parties nearby; additionally, that thing looks really big, and it's in the intertidal zone, and literally only exposed for a couple hours a day. It would take a long time to excavate. Personally, I'd only be interested in excavating it if the vertebral column lead to a skull - and two mysticete skeletons I've found at that same locality have both been headless.

Bobby

[steelhead9]

I don't really know of anyone who'd really be able to dig up the whale. Ironically enough, the discovery of this specimen started when somebody posted a picture to reddit (which I saw before it got here). Now that I'm not in CA anymore, there really aren't many interested or capable parties nearby; additionally, that thing looks really big, and it's in the intertidal zone, and literally only exposed for a couple hours a day. It would take a long time to excavate. Personally, I'd only be interested in excavating it if the vertebral column lead to a skull - and two mysticete skeletons I've found at that same locality have both been headless.

Bobby

A perfect example example of the impasse between academic and commercial interests. Not good enough for paleontologists, but don't you dare touch it. I don't mean this to be a personal attack, Bobby, but it happens all to often. Just like to see some common ground.

[Boesse]

It's actually a terrible example of that, I'm afraid. There really aren't many field paleontologists interested in Neogene marine vertebrates in Northern CA. If this were a dinosaur, for example, even though it lacked a skull or other useful bits, it'd be excavated in a heart beat - not only because there are a lot of dinosaur paleontologists, but there is far more public interest in dinosaur fossils than whales. The California coastline is literally littered with whale fossils that are just too large and difficult to excavate and as a result, sit there neglected.

With this fossil in particular - and with the caveat that I have not seen it, but am intimately familiar with the locality - it would be difficult for anyone to excavate. And that's under the assumption that it's not in a concretion - it very well could be, and if it is, then say goodbye to any chance of excavating the fossil in a reasonable period of time. My time is precious, and for it to be worth my time to excavate, it had better have a skull. Why? Because for me to take the time (and usually my own money for supplies/gas/food, etc.) to excavate it, I had better be able to have some tangible benefit - such as a publication, or a research topic for a future student. For either, diagnostic remains are necessary. In northern California, there are literally too many fossils to be able to collect, and prepare them all - so I go out and collect what I can, and try to focus on what I can identify in the field as scientifically significant specimens. Often this is on National Park or State Park land, where amateur collecting is not allowed. Let's assume there's no skull, jaw, or earbones - just postcrania. Great, it's a baleen whale - maybe from the scapula you could tell the family. We already know what families are preserved in the Purisima; such a specimen would not bring anything new to the table, scientifically speaking. On the flipside, if it's not useful, why can't a private collector take it? Good luck. No offense to private collectors in the Santa Cruz area, but aside from a few I know who have either had enough practice or perhaps a bit of training (e.g. Karl Heiman, interviewed in one article, and a few others), most private collectors don't have the resources or the capability to excavate something so large. Nearby, there are at least two mysticete skulls where some amateur hacked the posterior braincases off - I sure as hell don't want that guy excavating this thing, all he'd bring to the table is a pile of tear-inducing fragments. (as an aside, I did salvage one of the two skulls, which would have been the world's most complete Herpetocetus skull, if it were not for his impatience).

Another consideration is that a fossil like this is going to take a very, very long time to prepare, and eat up a lot of storage place A) during preparation and after curation. I was able to 'borrow' lab space while I was in Montana, and while I did bring back a few jackets with cetacean crania every year or so, there's no way I would've been able to bring a specimen this size back. I also would not have had the time to prepare it as a student. Assuming this specimen is entirely preserved in soft sediment, and at a best case scenario included a skull, ribcage, and vertebral column, it would take at least 3-5 years for one or two people working full to part time on it.

The last reason why this is a terrible example is because vertebrate fossil collecting is legal in Santa Cruz, and it hasn't stopped amateur collectors from amassing beautiful collections. Occasionally there are collectors who are generous and kind enough to donate a few interesting specimens here and there for us to study, which we are grateful for.

[steelhead9]

It's actually a terrible example of that, I'm afraid. There really aren't many field paleontologists interested in Neogene marine vertebrates in Northern CA. If this were a dinosaur, for example, even though it lacked a skull or other useful bits, it'd be excavated in a heart beat - not only because there are a lot of dinosaur paleontologists, but there is far more public interest in dinosaur fossils than whales. The California coastline is literally littered with whale fossils that are just too large and difficult to excavate and as a result, sit there neglected.

With this fossil in particular - and with the caveat that I have not seen it, but am intimately familiar with the locality - it would be difficult for anyone to excavate. And that's under the assumption that it's not in a concretion - it very well could be, and if it is, then say goodbye to any chance of excavating the fossil in a reasonable period of time. My time is precious, and for it to be worth my time to excavate, it had better have a skull. Why? Because for me to take the time (and usually my own money for supplies/gas/food, etc.) to excavate it, I had better be able to have some tangible benefit - such as a publication, or a research topic for a future student. For either, diagnostic remains are necessary. In northern California, there are literally too many fossils to be able to collect, and prepare them all - so I go out and collect what I can, and try to focus on what I can identify in the field as scientifically significant specimens. Often this is on National Park or State Park land, where amateur collecting is not allowed. Let's assume there's no skull, jaw, or earbones - just postcrania. Great, it's a baleen whale - maybe from the scapula you could tell the family. We already know what families are preserved in the Purisima; such a specimen would not bring anything new to the table, scientifically speaking. On the flipside, if it's not useful, why can't a private collector take it? Good luck. No offense to private collectors in the Santa Cruz area, but aside from a few I know who have either had enough practice or perhaps a bit of training (e.g. Karl Heiman, interviewed in one article, and a few others), most private collectors don't have the resources or the capability to excavate something so large. Nearby, there are at least two mysticete skulls where some amateur hacked the posterior braincases off - I sure as hell don't want that guy excavating this thing, all he'd bring to the table is a pile of tear-inducing fragments. (as an aside, I did salvage one of the two skulls, which would have been the world's most complete Herpetocetus skull, if it were not for his impatience).

Another consideration is that a fossil like this is going to take a very, very long time to prepare, and eat up a lot of storage place A) during preparation and after curation. I was able to 'borrow' lab space while I was in Montana, and while I did bring back a few jackets with cetacean crania every year or so, there's no way I would've been able to bring a specimen this size back. I also would not have had the time to prepare it as a student. Assuming this specimen is entirely preserved in soft sediment, and at a best case scenario included a skull, ribcage, and vertebral column, it would take at least 3-5 years for one or two people working full to part time on it.

The last reason why this is a terrible example is because vertebrate fossil collecting is legal in Santa Cruz, and it hasn't stopped amateur collectors from amassing beautiful collections. Occasionally there are collectors who are generous and kind enough to donate a few interesting specimens here and there for us to study, which we are grateful for.

All very good, valid points. Still it will weather away. Would not a single, carefully excavated vertebra be better than nothing? I also didn't mean this as a single example. All too often many, many fossils are left to weather into non-existence because they are not worthy of academic collecting (ie BLM and federal lands), yet they cannot be taken by collectors or commercial interests because of where they sit. Believe me, I am all with you concerning amateur hack jobs. I would simply like to see more co-operation that could perhaps benefit all sides and result in the recovery of more fossils.

[32fordboy]

An amateur hack-job will still accomplish more than letting it erode away. Just saying...

Of course, as with any other system that is shrouded in polotics, it's easiest to say no.

I won't go any further than that for fear I might get too passionate about the subject.

Edited November 19, 2012 by 32fordboy

[Auspex]

Anyone who wants to go get this whale, there appear to be no laws stopping you.

[32fordboy]

Legality isn't always the only road block, unfortunately:

"O'Neill and others believe more of the creature will be revealed over time by tidal scour, but experts asked onlookers to leave the bones as they lie."

I'm curious who they consider to be "onlookers"...

[Boesse]

All very good, valid points. Still it will weather away. Would not a single, carefully excavated vertebra be better than nothing? I also didn't mean this as a single example. All too often many, many fossils are left to weather into non-existence because they are not worthy of academic collecting (ie BLM and federal lands), yet they cannot be taken by collectors or commercial interests because of where they sit. Believe me, I am all with you concerning amateur hack jobs. I would simply like to see more co-operation that could perhaps benefit all sides and result in the recovery of more fossils.

It may not weather away - again, I've not seen it, but have some colleagues who just may be able to do something about it. I just have to remember to email them while I'm at work today. And yes, a few vertebrae salvaged is better than nothing - in fact, for large specimens like this, I've incrementally collected parts of it as they've weathered out. The Parabalaenoptera baulinensis type skeleton, from Marin County, was collected over a 10-year period as the bones weathered out of a cliff. I'm not advocating such a protracted period of time (the Parabalaenoptera type weathered out about 10' above the beach, whereas this is much more easily accessible), but collecting it in several trips might make it manageable. Still... if there's a skull, I'm not even sure it would be salvageable: delicate parts like that, preserved in soft sandstone, require a plaster jacket. There is zero possibility of 1) excavating the entire skull and 2) jacketing it and 3) flipping it within one low tide. It's not an excavation I'd like to attempt, that's for sure.

Bobby

[Scylla]

Bobby, how bout a cofferdam? At least for the (probably non-existant) skull?

[Boesse]

Not possible there - keep in mind that it's a surf spot. Cofferdams work well when the water is calm, but in this case, at high tide, large waves come up all the way and strike the base of the cliff. And during the winter, there are much larger waves (hence why the fossil is not covered by sand at the moment). Also, because there's no beach sand now, the cofferdam would have to be embedded in a trench of sandstone, which to be honest, sounds like it would take more time and effort than actually excavating the fossil would. I do know that Jack Horner and a few others excavated a mosasaur from a lakeside in Montana and used cofferdams and pumped the water out.

If there were not 1-2 meter waves on an average day, and it were a safer locality, then sandbagging might be an answer - but I'll put it this way. I'm intimately familiar with the locality, and have done all sorts of field work where I put my personal safety at risk - and I would not feel safe trusting a cofferdam or sandbags. At high tide here, there is a very real threat of being stranded and unable to leave until the next high tide, losing gear/equipment, or worse.

[Crinoid Queen]

Thats awesome I used to surf all the time in Santa Barbara and I never found any fossils Im jelious now haha

-CQ