Ammonites From The Lower Lias - Hettangium (Salzkammergut, Austria)

[alsatites]

Hello,

160 and 130 years ago, the Austrian paleontologists v. Hauer and Wähner reported at first on ammonites from the Alpine Lias.

Some of the finest specimens were from the Salzkammergut.

File comment: St. Gilgen in Salzkammergut

At former times, probably collecting there was like paradise. Obviously, the paleontologists were interested in the individual pieces. Whether greater conglomerations were recovered is not known, at least in the literature appears nothing like this. Maybe it was the fact that the earlier preparation facilities were not good enough.

One of the most important sites was the Schreinbach - area. There, a huge rock fall had descended, which blocks scattered over an area of ​​at least half a square kilometer. Shure it was probably easy to make good finds with little effort . Of course, since each block has been investigated, so that today finds are absolute luck. But already, the beauty of the scenic is reason enough for me, always there loafing.

I have invested a lot of time in the last few decades. Over the years, I have found pieces that need not fear comparison with the figures of the first, historic finds.

File comment: overview of a part of the discovery area

In recent years, "Marmoreum" reported his findings in the Karwendel on www.steinkern.de. There is nothing to add to his informative reports in which he also describes the layers in detail.

The preceding and following image provides an overview of the area with some historical sites, the photos were taken on a ski trip in March 2012.

File comment: The other half of the area, Dachstein-glacier in the background

The Unterlias layers occur in this area. It is a lovely area, the high of the mountains is bout 1700 m.

The interesting layers of the Lias are mostly medium to high altitude, so they are mostly buried.

Here, the search was not always easy.

Like in other areas, the Fossil frequency varies widely, and the benches over long distances are absolutely empty.

Unfortunately - or fortunately, thus remains a well-preserved ammonite from this period is very rare.

Outcrops of Hettangium and Sinemurium

File comment: Hettangian and Sinemurian pending, but unfortunately here the fossiliferous layer is too thin.

Therefore, the interested collectors should also be satisfied if, after a long day trip, he can take only the impressions of some wild and romantic surroundings.

File comment: wild, romantic valleys and creeks

Other new sites that I discovered over the years, brought generally very limited results.

It is certain that I have destroyed many blocks in vain.

Especially one of our first sites, which had provided excellent results in their discovery more than 20 years ago, , I searched again and again with ever-decreasing success. Actually, I accepted that this era is over, but I have visited the place every few years.

In autumn 2012 I had there a lot of luck. At August I found there a little loose block that content is known, it was proaries a large single Alsatites proaries, shown in the contest FOM, in October.

I was motivated by this discovery, so some weeks later I searched over the area intensively and extensively.

In fact, I found it. It was a block of about 1 m on each side, which contained a still unprecedented peace with Alsatites.

You can be sure, that the rescue and transportation of 60 kg was a bit of action.

File comment: stage with several Alsatites

Another block of which only pointed out a small corner between fall material and alluvial soil , had caught my attention. Despite the rigors of transport of the last discovery, of course one week later, again I was there, to have a closer look to him. He looked promising and I set out to expose him. Great was my surprise after some time of hard work, when I could only guess its true dimensions.

I knew the area, from which the block was delivered (20 years ago there were good fossils), the latest find was not far away, so I put him entirely free, to see if there are any cross sections are shown at the side.

The result was rather sobering.

Nevertheless, I set out on the long and arduous work of removing the top layer. The Marmorea zone, although at least 10 cm quite powerful delivered, barely delivered usable material despite the large surface.

The Schlotheimia were covered with a thick Fe-Mn - crust but totally squashed.

File comment: The Marmorea zone

Then the block had to be cracked. Without probably extensive weathering that would have been certainly impossible without technology. I succeeded, however, with several tools,to separate the fossil layer of Megastoma zone from the rest.

File comment: The block is cracked

To my disappointment, the outer regions were empty. The greater was my excitement when in the middle parts showed cross sections in a great number. It was obviously a real nest.

To reduce the carrying amount normally, of course I try to format the findings as well as possible.

In encrusted fossils is not a problem, top pieces are not encrusted but mostly associated intimately with the surrounding rock, so always there is the danger that the next punch is one too much. If the fossil is even full calcite, the chance of a preparation is often bad, even if you drags the whole block back home.

As the recently found Alsatites-stage already has had a good quality. it was clear to me that I had to try to keep this piece in its entirety.

This time there were parts (in total 170 kg) which had to be transported. For the rough terrain has occurred to me this solution: the individual components of this stage (the largest block was about 40 kg) I lashed with belts on the upturned lid of a rain barrel andpulled it downhill like a sled.

Home then the blocks were cut carefully. Since it is a condensation horizon, the fossils are not level, individual pieces are also transversely.

Where possible, I pre-prepared the individual parts, already, so after the bonding was only neccessary the fine work.

Here is the result:

A stage with about 90 x 70 cm with a total of 16 more or less well-preserved macrofossils.

File comment: Stage with ammonites from the Megastoma zone

Between Alsatites

File comment: 3 Alsatites proaries

is partially obscured a beautiful little Paradasyceras uermösense,

as well as fragments of a very rare Pseudaetomoceras and Kammerkarites .

besides other rarities such Kammerkarites,

File comment: Kammerkarites, the unsightly dish was removed sqmm-wise.

two other, not optimally preserved specimens of the same species (latimontanum? haploptychum?) and a very rare Pleuroacanthites which also has visual defects

File comment: Kammerkarites with rare Pleuroacanthites

Storthoceras extracostatum

File comment: Storthoceras extracostatum

Another Ammonite that looks due to weak ribbing as a transitional form between Kammerkarites and Discamphiceras. At its mouth, a fragment of Atractites.

do you know that ammonite?

Other fragments of Cenoceras and Kammerkarites are mentioned.

Also a very nice Cenoceras was there, however it was in such an unfavorable position that I had to prepare it separate so it could not be integrated into the block.

Although I have already found more beautiful and rare single ammonites, such a piece of the Megastoma-Zone so far appears to be unique and represents a highlight in my collecting activities.

I think it is worth to be a candidate in the competition Fossil of he Month.

Now certainly the one or the other asks, whether it is worth here to look for ammonites at holiday times.

As so often, it depends to the motivation and how much ingenuity, time, strength and endurance you bring.

In principle, everything and everywhere is scanned.

But everyone has different ideas naturally. Where the effort for me no longer seems appropriate, perhaps begins another at first.

The cosmic justice balances the account.

I wish to all members, that they also will get an unexpected achievement. For me at least Christmas took place this year in late summer.

Peter (Alsatites)

[Wrangellian]

Peter, those are spectacular, and huge!

Did any of these retain any 'shell' and you removed it, or was the shell already gone? (I see sutures) - no matter, they are impressive and worthy of the FotM contest. One large ammonite is nice enough, but multiples like this are worth more than the sum of their parts, I think. The amount of work you have put into these puts anything I have done with my finds to shame..

Eric

[cowsharks]

Peter, that was an amazing story and journey. Thanks for posting the pictures too. The one thing I have learned in 17 years of fossil collecting is that "persistence pays off", and your persistence and hard work is a perfect example of this. Congratulations on finding such amazing specimens for your collection.

Daryl.

[Terry Dactyll]

Peter.... What a fantastic ' couple ' of multi-blocks of ammonites... Your Christmas certainly did come early!... not just in finding both slabs but also collecting in such beautiful surroundings...I like the idea of the sled to transport them downhill... I'm sorry I cant help with your ID on the unknown ammonite....Great story and thanks for the opportunity to share your collecting...Very nice prepwork to!....

[andreas]

Congratulations!! Well done Peter!

My back and feet suffer from looking at the block pic. I think no one here knows how far it is from this location to the end of this valley.

To bring out your finds was surely punishment like Sisyphus had to do.

My greatest respect to your effort!

Andreas

Edited December 26, 2012 by andreas

[MB]

Wonderful place, high mountain landscape and ammonites

[Ludwigia]

Peter, you move mountains!

[fossiladdict]

Beautiful scenery and ammonites. I'm beginning to enjoy seeing the ammonites more and more. Just beautiful.

[Auspex]

Such effort, and such results!

I am well content to be able to watch over your shoulder from my chair; thank you!

[Shamalama]

Mein Gott! Such perseverance to collect, but well worth the time you spent. Thank you for posting your story.

[alsatites]

Thank´s to you all "for the flowers"!

@ eric - The Ammonites with a sutur (Kammerkarites and Paradasyceras) had a shell from calcite and i removed it.

@ andreas - of course I've just pulled the blocks "in difficult terrain". You know, the entire stretch into the valley is certainly no rough terrain, there are forest roads.

But I'm just not "privileged", so the transport was still a story in itself!

@ roger - move mountains - this is obviously true for you too, I admire your productivity!

Peter

[astron]

Peter,

I have just entered this nice topic and I am amazed with your fascinating report and finds

Congratulations

[Wrangellian]

Thank´s to you all "for the flowers"!

...

@ eric - The Ammonites with a sutur (Kammerkarites and Paradasyceras) had a shell from calcite and i removed it.

...

Ah.. Now if you don't mind me asking, why would you do this? For cosmetic reasons, or scientific? Was the shell too soft and difficult to retain?

[Missourian]

Beautiful scenery with beautiful ammonites.

The detailed trip description and scenery & outcrop photos really help to bring one along on the adventure.

[Fossildude19]

Wonderful trip report.

Thank you for posting it.

Regards,

[Kosmoceras]

Very nice finds, and the scenery is beautiful. The material must weight a tonne! Very well done!

Regards,

[alsatites]

Thank you again to all, your interest honours me!

@eric - (Wrangellian)

I removed the shell mainly for cosmetic reasons, as it was even more worse than at the next big ammonite.

For scientific purposes it is sufficient to remove the shell from a segment for a view to the suture in order to determine the species and possibly the type.

Peter

Edited December 31, 2012 by alsatites

[Wrangellian]

OK. I'd still like to see a specimen with at least some shell remaining, just for an example of the exterior.

[alsatites]

Hello Wrangellian,

here see you a specimen with shell on the inner section and without shell outside. It is a very rare hettangian Phylloceras.

Triassic-Jurassic boundary events: mass extinction, global environmental change.

Palaeontologists believe, Phyllocerataceae survived and were the origin of all following ammonites.

Regards

Peter

I present: Neoammonites father, Adam III,

Edited January 6, 2013 by alsatites