jwmoor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Found this petrified jaw bone on the beach on the Empire side of Coos Bay Oregon. Possibly bear lower left jaw bone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It's not a bear...It looks like some kind of peccary/pig to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Hmmm...that's odd. I posted a couple of hours ago, it was there for a bit, and now it's gone. Yes, peccary/pig. It is a juvenile, as m3 isn't errupted .. Rich Edited January 13, 2013 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Tanks for the responce, I thiught it might be pig... So how long does it take for bone to to turn into a petrified form? It's just that there are/were no pigs native to Oregon and were not introduced until 1800ish. Can a fire cause the same effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncoat Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I would guess a recent feral pig. Link They are known in the area. The color can be from weathering in the elements. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The bone and teeth turning a dark color can be caused by a variety of things, and it doesn't have to take very long. I've found pork chop bones in the river here (obviously cut with a saw) that was already stained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 This is a pig mandible, Sus scrofa. This is the non-native species of pig that was brought over by the Europeans. At most, this jaw is 300 years old. www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Perhaps it's a remnant of when Sir Francis Drake ported here back in 1579ish;) just feels and seems older.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 For comparison: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Bone can pickup an ancient looking patina pretty quickly, depending on the minerals in the soil/water it has been laying in. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) For comparison: Mr. Pristis how old is your comparison piece Edited January 14, 2013 by jwmoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 So how old is this? Post European settlement; S. scrofa did not exist in the new world prior to that. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) I don't know it looks more like this than the above sample, also there are no holes in my specimen after P3 where as the pig example does. Excuse my ignorance it just seems way older than 2-300 years. Edited January 14, 2013 by jwmoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) re Edited January 15, 2013 by jwmoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 This jaw definitely isn't bear. It would be easy to make that mistake for people that haven't seen and handled a lot of mammal material, though. Some of the most knowledgeable people about vertebrate fossils on this forum have chimed in on the ID (including a paleontologist) all saying pretty much the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Well Edited January 15, 2013 by jwmoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Well, I still believe it's too old to be a pig. Waiting for another palaeontologist from Kansas State U to chime in. I'll see what our local butcher has to say, they do both pig and bear. Someday when I get up to Portland I'll take it to the museum there and ask them. You believe that the jaw is old; therefore, despite the evidence presented here, the jaw cannot be from a domestic pig. Either your belief is incorrect, or the evidence of your eyes is faulty. For comparison: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 You see, you asked ___ a leading question suggesting bear. He said himself that he is no mammal expert, so the first thing he comes to look at briefly is bear which is similar, but not the same. It looks similar in the first photos on Google, so yes, he is most likely to agree with you. Where you to ask without saying your opinion, he might have said otherwise and taken more time looking into it, and you would get an opinion not so bias. If I were you, I would listen to the others saying pig. I have been in the position wanting something to be older or even a fossil. The people on the forum have seen thousands of mammal bones, so have a lot of experience in the area. Experience is everything; a title of being a palaeontologist is nothing if they are in any area but specialised in mammal bones. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmoor Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) FYI Edited January 15, 2013 by jwmoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure why you posted this specimen for identification since you were already so sure of what you thought it was. It seems you were only looking for affirmation of your "identification". It seems you have received your affirmation from an amphibian, reptile, & bird specialist, as well as from a dinosaur ecology specialist. Both of whom obviously know very little about mammals. Edited January 14, 2013 by PrehistoricFlorida www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Just like _______, I'm sure that _______ is amateur-friendly and eager to show you that professionals have answers. Eagerness to help does not equate to accuracy in identification in some cases. This is one of those cases (two instances with one fossil!). Nate has just pointed out that ________ is a dinosaur guy, so I won't belabor that point. ________ is (perhaps understandably) weak in identifying these common mammal remains. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) So, you've got a mammal jaw, and so far you've asked a reptile specialist and a dinosaur guy to id it, and you are about to have the butcher take a look... Edited January 15, 2013 by Auspex The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 When it comes to asking professionals questions, you really have to choose the right paleontologist for the right topic.. Paleontology is way too large of a field of study for one person to know it all. In regards to your jaw feeling older than it is....I've found Blancan (Early Pleistocene) aged vertebrate fossils right at 1.8 million years old that were very light weight, light colored, chalky and not mineralized at all..But they were old. At the same time, I've found cow bones that felt very solid, were as heavy as a rock and dark black, yet they weren't old at all. It all depends on the minerals the bone, tooth or jaw was deposited in. You can't always tell age based on what a specimen looks or feels like. Again, you've gotten input from some highly knowledgeable members here that specialize in just this sort of thing. I went and got a photo of a Sus molar and put it on your photo for comparison. Keep in mind that my tooth was photographed from a slightly different angle than the one in your jaw. Pay close attention to the shape of the enamel along the bottom of the teeth where the root meets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 ______ is a great guy, we are friends. His expertise is not in mammals, however. And bears and pigs are rather superficially similar, since both are omnivores. This is precisely why some professionals do not like dealing with amateurs - they get drug into this sort of game playing, often on the basis of rather poor photographs. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) ______ is a great guy, we are friends. His expertise is not in mammals, however. And bears and pigs are rather superficially similar, since both are omnivores. This is precisely why some professionals do not like dealing with amateurs - they get drug into this sort of game playing, often on the basis of rather poor photographs. Exactly! I hope you asked these professionals before posting their email responses to this forum. If you didn't ask permission it's somewhat poor form to post the email messages. Edited January 15, 2013 by AgrilusHunter "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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